In this week’s episode of Inside Reproductive Health, we don't talk about new patients. We talk about patients ready to move on to treatment that are a good fit for IVF, how you convert them into IVF treatment, and some of the national averages when it comes to conversion. If your concern is mostly about having more IVF patients and you want to reach your IVF goal, but you’re good on your new patient goal, this episode was recorded for you.
I brought Stephanie Linder, our Director of Client Success, on the show with me. She sits in the operational marketing seat very often and gets to get close to this part of the patient marketing journey. We talk about the reasons why patients don't move through treatment and how to overcome those reasons to increase the conversion to IVF patients when they are in fact a good fit for IVF.
Some topics we cover include:
KPI’s to focus on moving patients to treatment
National averages for conversion of patients to IVF patients
Reasons patients don’t go through with IVF
How online reviews impact your business
Transcript
Narrator: [00:00:00] Welcome to Inside Reproductive Health. The shop talks about the fertility field here. You'll hear authentic and unscripted conversations about practice management, patient relations, and business development from the most forward-thinking experts in our field. Wall Street and Silicon Valley both want your patients, but there is a plan if you're willing to take action. Visit FertilityBridge.com to learn about the first piece of building a fertility marketing system, and the goal and competitive diagnostic. Now, here's the founder of Fertility Bridge and the host of Inside Reproductive Health, Griffin Jones.
Griffin Jones: [00:00:39] IVF patients- on today's episode of Inside Reproductive Health, we don't talk about new patients, we talk about patients that are ready to move on to treatment and are a good fit for IVF. And so if your concern is mostly about having more IVF patients and you want to reach your IVF goal and you’re good on your new patient goal, this episode is the beginning of the rabbit hole that you need to go down. I have Stephanie Linder with me. She works here at Fertility Bridge. She's our director of client success, and she also sits in the operational marketing seat very often. So sometimes she gets really close to parts of this.
And we talk about the reasons why patients don't move through treatment. We talk about the four, but really three KPIs to focus on. To move patients to treatment. Before we do that today, this shout-out goes to Jackie Sharp, who worked for a group on the west coast, in marketing, and got me thinking about IVF conversion even before I was even when I was still focusing mostly on new patient acquisition.
And so I want to give a shout-out to Jackie. I hope I get an email from her and hope that she still listens to the show on occasion. So please enjoy this episode about the third phase of the fertility patient marketing journey, moving new patients beyond their initial consultation and through treatment with my colleague and employee and friend Stephanie Linder
Stephanie, welcome back to Inside Reproductive Health
Stephanie Linder: [00:02:15] Thanks, Griffin Jones. I'm so excited to be here.
Griffin Jones: [00:02:19] Going forward. I'm not going to even do that intro for you because you're neither a guest nor the host. It's both with me. The last time you were on was actually, you were interviewing me.
You were the host, you were interviewing me. And that was probably two years ago. And now that you've been with fertility bridge for a while, I trust you to have you on the show and share some of these points of view with our listening public. And because you're so instrumental in crafting them with me and with the rest of the team.
And so I just view this as having you on more. I don't view you as like It's just being, it's a Fertility Bridge hosted show without a guest. I'm not even considering you a guest in this sense. One day, I'll have you on just to talk about Miami, to talk about salsa dancing, and it will be a complete interview, but as far as you're on today, I want to go through the third phase of the patient journey with you.
And as we. Go through more of these going forward, or as we zoom into certain parts of certain phases, have you on to do those things. But today I want to talk about moving people from initial consultation to treatment. Typically IVF, is that okay? That'd be wonderful. I can't wait. Okay. So part of the reason why Stephanie and I and Fertility Bridge have invested so much in this phase is because we always hear people saying they want treatment-ready patients.
They want IVF patients now qualified patients. You can go back and read the four phases of the fertility patient marketing journey. You'll see that it isn't just a cohort of people. It isn't one demographic of people that are treatment-ready. Indeed. There are people that are more treatment-ready, but it's how you work the system.
It's how you move people along the three, the four phases. Part of the reason why people want to do that is yes. Sometimes they want to do it because that's what's profitable. Other times, I think a lot of what is going on Stephanie's that people are so busy that they're so slammed with new patients.
It's almost like triage. It's like, well, if we're going to be treating people, we, if we're going to be seeing people, we should be seeing the people that we think we can treat. I would agree with that. So that's why we're zooming into the third phase today, but you should know that there are aspects of the third phase, just like all of the other phases that are seen later in the patient journey that are seen in the fourth phase, and that are seen earlier, things that you have to do to pre suede people.
And we're going to be talking about some of those things, but there's really not just one reason why people don't move forward with treatment. There's. Probably eight or 10 and you could come back to us and say, well, I think that those two should be combined, or I think that one should be split up.
Yeah, I get it. You can always break it down to a semantic level, but when we firm our points of view on these different phases of the patient journey and these different segments of each phase, we're really zooming in and really defending on why we think it's this. We're going to talk a lot more about the things that you use to measure it, but there are probably eight to 10 reasons we've come up with eight or nine Steph, what are those?
Stephanie Linder: [00:05:42] So first I would start with a poor prognosis. I mean, patients come in and they get some really bad news quite often. And sometimes it's so bad that they don't see that the chance of a live birth can actually happen for them. But there's also some other ones like that. Physicians don't think of it as often.
So naturally, they may go to something like, oh, they can't afford it, or they don't want to pay for treatment. And while that's true, the idea of taking on something that could be 20,000 can often be overwhelming.
Griffin Jones: [00:06:10] Some of them are a little bit self-explanatory, so go through, list them off for me. And then there might be a couple that I want you to dive more, deeply into.
Stephanie Linder: [00:06:22] So just kind of start from the top. Okay. So there's a lot of reasons that patients don't proceed after consults. The nine that we really zoom in on are core prognosis, the fact that this journey is extremely overwhelming. The third one is just the uncertainty of what happens next.
The clear steps aren't laid out for them. The fourth is really paralysis by analysis. Do they do IUI? Do they do IVF? How many IUI's? There's a lot of options for them. Number five is they didn't finish their testing and they may not even know it. Whether it's the female partner. Or the male partner.
Griffin Jones: [00:07:00] So why did you feel strongly about signaling that one out, Steph?
Because we talked about incomplete testing. Like maybe it's just part of the indecision part, or maybe it's part of the, maybe it's part of the uncertainty part, but you. Really zoomed in on testing. And what's your case for that?
Stephanie Linder: [00:07:19] I mean, it comes from firsthand experience, hearing it from our clients and just my experience in the fertility industry.
And to me, it's always the one that surprises me the most. And I have a specific example of this. You know, we had a client that did a follow-up post-consultation to figure out why this couple didn't come back in for treatment. And what they found was that the husband or the male partner was just too embarrassed to give a sample to an office.
And they shared with them that there's a way to do this outside of the office. And that got the couple back into treatment. So to me, sometimes we imagine that the barriers are so great, but we can really solve them by just asking them, Hey, do you have any questions? And then providing a solution to what their concern is.
And so I really focused on this one because I've just heard and seen it firsthand from so many of our clients. And to me, it's such a simple, easy.
Griffin Jones: [00:08:15] What comes next?
Stephanie Linder: [00:08:15] So the one that I hear that people assume the most often is the financial barrier. And while that's the case, we can deep dive into the different facets of that. Just not a sense of urgency. This could be a lot related to age or with that egg freezing patient population. The eighth one would be just the disappointment and the experience.
And this is really where the clinic has to look in the mirror, but this could be with the initial consultation, something, a blood draw that the man does, for example, so many different things, but essentially they just had a poor experience. And last but not least, I would say is a more positive one, which would be that they got pregnant naturally, which is always amazing news.
But there's still ways to leverage this patient or prospective patient. To really get more referrals. So it's still someone that good news, but not something that concentrate on for today.
Griffin Jones: [00:09:04] I want to zoom in on the financial barrier for a little bit because finance and payment are a big piece of the third phase of the patient marketing journey. It's one of the things that people leave reviews about sometimes, but it's one that might not be immediate. It might not just be having the money to pay for treatment or not. Talk more about that.
Stephanie Linder: [00:09:31] Well, That's of course a possibility, but it's also deciding, do I want to spend my hard-earned $20,000 going this route? Or do I want to spend it doing $2,000 IUI buckets or whatever they may be? It's also because they don't understand the options that they have in order to pay for this. And really who to talk to at the clinic that could help them navigate these options.
I would say the last part of that is really just the mess that is insurance. I don't foresee, I don't see a lot of our clients, our clinics I don't see a lot of clinics necessarily explaining the in-network versus out of network in an optimal way. And I think patients just really don't understand what their options are.
And if they had a better explanation of how to pay for treatment or the resources available. They could reduce the barrier to treatment.
Griffin Jones: [00:10:26] We'll devote an entire piece of content to finance and payment in the future because it deserves one. But to your point, it's telling people how they're able to pay for it, not being able to pay for it is part of finance.
So of all of these reasons why people don't move through treatment money is only one of them and even have money. It's not always a question of. They don't have the money. Sometimes it's a question of, they just haven't looked into the options enough on their own, or had it explained clearly to them because it's much different to think, oh gosh, I'm going to have to take out a $20,000 loan or whatever it might be versus looking at something with payments versus looking at.
A couple different options. So we will dig more deeply into that. I want to spend time talking about the four areas that we'd measure. So we've got eight to 10 reasons. We think there's nine reasons why people don't move on to treatment. And there's four different key performance indicators that are going to help someone realize, are they getting to that IVF goal or not?
What are they?
Stephanie Linder: [00:11:38] So we want to measure your new patient volume appointments IVF conversion rates. So your conversion from appointment to IVF, egg retrieval, your online ratings. So what the public sees and then the patient's satisfaction. So the surveys that you conduct internally, what are those ratings and aggregate numbers?
Griffin Jones: [00:11:59] So new patient volume, we've done a lot of content about, we will do a lot more content about. I don't want to spend much time talking about that today because new patients just tend to be a different goal entirely. And some high growth groups do still have new patient volume needs or some that may be were.
doing really well previously and then found themselves in a very competitive market and they didn't invest much in business. So there are people that still have new patient needs still, but we've created a lot of content. I want to zoom in on the other three KPIs. So we've got IVF conversion rate, online rating, which is also online reputation.
And then patient satisfaction. Let's talk a little bit about IVF conversion rate because. A lot of people don't measure it at all. This is IVF conversion rate. This is the percentage of people that move on from consultation to IVF. And part of the reason why they don't measure it is because it can be cumbersome.
If you want a really accurate way against the actual patients that moved on, it can be cumbersome to get. All of that from the EMR, but there is some napkin math that can be accurate. We'll talk about the stipulations when it's not accurate, but what's the very basic formula stuff.
Stephanie Linder: [00:13:25] Well, it's taking your IVF retrievals times 12 months divided by the new patient appointments that are for fertility.
It's crucial that you remove any egg freezing appointments or fertility preservation out of that new patient number. Times 12 months and equals your conversion
Griffin Jones: [00:13:41] rate. So retrievals year's worth of retrievals divided by a year's worth of new patients is IVF conversion rate. So this formula doesn't work with one month of data or even a quarter because your IVF cycles are typically lagging two to six months.
So that's why we're saying to do it. Over 12 months because it's not going to be accurate if you're doing it over a quarter, there's also something else that makes this whole formula go kaput. What's that?
Stephanie Linder: [00:14:13] It's egg banking. So in a lot of areas where there's well, two things, a lot of coverage, like progeny or carrot, where they give you a certain number of retrievals upfront, especially in patients that are older, they'll tend to do multiple retrievals before they ever get to a transfer.
And that can really throw off the numbers. So we do just take that into account, but it will likely make your conversion rate look higher if you do a lot of egg banking upfront.
Griffin Jones: [00:14:40] So for most people this isn't an issue, but I have seen it where it is an issue and it looks like the IVF conversion rate is overall a hundred percent and that's definitely not.
Yeah, right. So if you don't have these exceptions working against you, you can figure out relatively quickly how many people you've been converting to IVF. And we have the privilege of working with every kind of fertility center, ones with dozens of docs, ones with single docs, ones that are part of corporate networks, and ones that are completely independent ones that are in Canada and the United States.
And those that are academic versus. Being private. And we have seen a range. And from the 40 plus practices that we've worked with, what is the, what would you say are the points? And when Stephanie and I were talking about, I put them as points, Stephanie put them as ranges. The reason why I didn't put them as ranges is because it's not like, “oh, I'm at 49% and that's in the good range. And then I'm at 50% and that's a great range.” So that's why I put very specific points. What are those points for what's good? What's average? What's bad for IVF conversion, Stephanie?
Stephanie Linder: [00:15:55] So we'd want to put a little stipulation to this before we speak about them, that we want to really divide this into two categories.
So if you're in a mandated state where people have more access to care, the conversion rates will likely naturally be higher versus being in a non-mandated state. So anything in that 20 to 30% range regardless is what we would consider. Poor or not a good conversion rate.
Griffin Jones: [00:16:18] I don't care who you are.
I don't care if you are in a very poor small market because we hear that sometimes. Oh, well, you know, this isn't Chicago, this isn't Atlanta. It's not San Francisco. If you're below 30%, that doesn't matter. If you're below 30%, you're not. Moving enough patients to treatment. If you're below 20%, I'm worried that you're going to close the doors.
That's something that we can tell by looking at clinics across the country and across Canada, I can't say exactly how many patients should be moving on to IVF. And so that's normal. You made your caveat stuff. That's the caveat that I really want to make is we're not telling you clinically how many people should be moving on.
We're just looking at what's happening across the country. This is what is happening against the total patient population that could be being served and. Under 30% is definitely cause for concern.
Stephanie Linder: [00:17:22] Right. Especially when you're looking at this over a year average, and as you said, you're not just taking this at a month at a time.
If this is under a year average, it's something that I would look at more closely. But what I'd consider more in the good to very good range is your 40 to 50% especially in a non-mandated state. So I would say in a mandated state, what I would consider average is more in that 50% range and very good or exceeding expectations would be 70% and above.
Griffin Jones: [00:17:50] So 40%, if you're non-mandated if you're in one of those markets that was giving us the excuses that we were talking about 40% is good for you, 50% would be very good for you. If you're in that type of market. I mean, you are really good at moving on. People to treatment. And you're really good at triaging.
50% is a lot more common to see for those that are in mandated states or that have a lot of progeny Cared employer kind, body, employer coverage, and then 70%. You'll never see that. At least now you'll never see that in a non-mandated state, in a place where there's not a lot of employer coverage. The only places where we're seeing that is where there's a state mandate or there is a ton of employer tech company type of coverage, and often both in order to get something that's that good.
Stephanie Linder: [00:18:46] Right. And if someone has it, I'd welcome him to be a guest on this podcast with you.
Griffin Jones: [00:18:50] So that's IVF conversion rate. That's one of the four key performance indicators to measure when you are going for an IVF.
Goal and new patients is the first, but IVF conversion rate is what you would look at right after new patients. We'll talk more. In separate pieces of content about the specifics of influencing that KPI, but we've got new patients. We've got IVF conversion rate. The other two are online reputation, online rating.
If we're looking at what the actual numerical is and patient satisfaction. So talk to us about online ratings.
Stephanie Linder: [00:19:31] Online ratings, every physician in clinics, favorite metric it's really what's public-facing and what your patient sees when they're not only doing initial research about your clinic. But they're still leveraging these online ratings, even after they've done the consult, just to almost confirm that their decision is the right way, perhaps even deciding between your clinic and the clinic down the street.
So it's really just providing them evidence that they're making the right decision and it's you know, their peers are also giving them or supporting them that, okay, this is the right decision to make and making them feel more comfortable and all their emotions on all the decisions that are going on in their head.
Griffin Jones: [00:20:08] So we chose to separate it from patient satisfaction. And there's a couple different reasons for separating online ratings from patient satisfaction. Maybe we'll get to that when we talk about patient satisfaction. Right. But we do believe that they are separate things. And if you're reading anything about internet marketing or anything about marketing, you'll often hear.
Reputation management is one thing. And even sometimes we say that if we're talking about online reputation management software, but total reputation management is really your online reputation, your online ratings, plus your patient satisfaction, the internal and the external. So if we're being really judicious, it's not that its online reputation is patient satisfaction. They really are two sides to the same coin. If we're staying with just the online part of it, what are the important sites to focus on platforms to focus on as of May, 2021?
Stephanie Linder: [00:21:18] Yeah. And that's a really good question because you do have to take a look at what platforms are influencing your referral patterns probably on an annual basis because they are always slightly changing.
So right now, Google still reigns Supreme as probably the most influential people are still going to Google to do their searches and seeing your reviews on the right-hand side of the screen. It's still Facebook as number two and fertility IQ has become a lot more influential in recent years, probably due to the robust amount of content they've now put on their site. So we're seeing that As number three and then number four would be Yelp.
Griffin Jones: [00:21:52] So I was ready to kill Yelp off of this and write it off as irrelevant. You made a case for it. You went back to the rest of the team. You spoke to our digital strategists.
You got the evidence from them and came back and mentioned why Yelp is still relevant because there are lots of centers that are still getting. Reviews on Yelp. And I thought a little bit more about why that is and my hypothesis of why that is because Yelp is the default review for apple listings.
So in the same, for the same reason that Google is so important because it's Google reviews is the review for a Google location. Listing Apple doesn't have their own review platform, they just integrate with Yelp. And so I'm glad that you. Made that case. And I think that's why it still belongs there in the 2021 world.
So now we've got the places that we want to focus our attention on what is good. What's bad because this is a question that people have. Very often they say, well, people only leave bad reviews online and that's not really true. There's definitely a range. And we can tell you what's good and what's average and what's bad.
So walk us through that. Yeah.
Stephanie Linder: [00:23:20] So, three of the four of the platforms we just listed are on a five-star rating. So likely what we see is if you have a perfect five-star rating, we want to see more reviews, more social proof. But if you have at least a 4.5 or above, it helps you, it makes the patient.
Decide that you are the right choice in the right clinic and support their decision, but anything between a four and a 4.4 is neutral. It doesn't really push one way or the other. Anything under a 3.9 hurts you and really hurts you, is anything under a three even more so.
Griffin Jones: [00:23:58] Yeah. And I think it's important why we included this in the third phase of the patient journey.
Why is it an IVF consult to, excuse me, initial consult to. IVF. Why isn't it only in the first phase of the marketing journey, which is just vetting new patients to increase? The reason why it's in this phase is to begin with “why,” it's so important for actually converting people to treatment is because you can get people in the door with a 3.2 rating.
Maybe they'll say, “well, you know, we just need to see a doc and our other doctor recommended this person.” You can still get people in the door with a poor reputation, but it always has the potential to be the devil on the shoulder. And once people start facing. The hardship of treatment, the reality of treatment, injections, cost uncertainty of success.
Once they're actually faced with all of these things, then they go back and they're like, well, was Susan Wright when she said that they're not going to get back to me. Was Tiffany correct when she said that it was a complete waste of money and a complete waste of time? And so the reasons that Stephanie brought up of the range that Stephanie gave for this is what helps you.
This is what's hurting you. It's not just for getting new patients in the door, it's getting them to treatment because people are. Still going back for this social proof, even after they've come to visit you, they still have to make more decisions. And they reference these for doing that. So we separated online reputation, online ratings from patient satisfaction, which is measured, that rating is measured differently. So why don't you talk to us about patient satisfaction Steph?
Stephanie Linder: [00:26:01] Yeah. While online reviews are public-facing and really anyone in the world can meet them. Patient satisfaction is meant to be an internal measure of patient satisfaction.
So these are set by sending or understanding by sending patients surveys really at two key points in the process sending right after their consultation, and we want to do that because we know that approximately 50% of people, well, maybe even more don't proceed to treatment. So we really want to understand their experience and why they did or did not proceed.
And then doing it after the egg retrieval, really once a bulk of their process has been wrapped up.
Griffin Jones: [00:26:41] So there's a couple things that you're looking for and maybe I'll have you get into some detail. I don't know that I'll have you get into all of the details today, but the reason why we're measuring patient satisfaction separately from online is there's basically three reasons.
Online reputation ratings can be incomplete sometimes. People don't have hardly any and or sometimes they can be misleading because they really worked the heck out of rate MDs in the early days. And know how to use reputation management software and really have a good process. Yeah. And they're working too hard almost on, on that.
It's not a question of working too hard on the online site. It's more of a question of working it really hard on the online side, but not working hard enough on the satisfaction side. So it can be misleading. Second is that It doesn't allow you to quantify your issues. It doesn't allow you to prioritize those real concerns.
And then third is that when you get internal feedback, it allows you to address those issues before they become public. And that's something that you have a very strong point of view on. So. Of all of the things that you could go into more detail about patient satisfaction. Why don't you talk more about that, Steph; about getting feedback from patients so that they're not going and leaving negative reviews necessarily?
Stephanie Linder: [00:28:08] Yeah. I have a firm belief that if any clinic out there wants to become a world-class clinic and wants to improve their workflow, they have to ask their patients. What's happening during the journey. And as a physician or a leader of a practice, you are so inundated with just your day-to-day stuff, that it may not be clear to you.
Some of the things that are happening, maybe the way someone speaks to someone at the front desk answers a phone call. Hurt someone with a blood draw. You need to understand what's happening, not only with your patients, but if you're the leader of a large practice, what's happening with your colleagues, patients as well.
And look at these as a group, so you can assess it properly and perhaps fix any workflow operations or staffing issues that are not easy to address, but are absolutely needed. And it's one of the key ways you'll be able to improve the practice and know where to focus your next initiatives on.
Griffin Jones: [00:29:04] I notice it when my Southwest flight is like 10 minutes late, I get on Twitter, like, oh, I'm giving it to Southwest.
I'm totally giving it to Delta or Chevy or, you know, whatever company I feel like I don't have control over. That's clearly at play with negative reviews. It's not all of it, but a big part of it is that. Leaving a negative review gives the person some sort of control back. They take back some sort of control.
Like I might not be able to control any bit of this process, but if I feel slighted by you, I can at least slam you in front of other people.
Stephanie Linder: [00:29:43] That's what we don't want though. Right. So by doing the survey, we're circumventing and preventing that from happening.
Griffin Jones: [00:29:49] That's what I mean. Yeah. Because otherwise they're going to take that control.
And so if you give them some control in a regulated space. That's what you're saying is the means to avoid some of that negative venting, which is a third of negative reviews anyway.
Stephanie Linder: [00:30:10] Oh, yeah. I mean, I'd rather know about these grievances internally so I can fix them and that. A patient, another prospective patient doesn't read it and go to the clinic down the street.
So really it's a means to review internally, improve workflows, improve operations, and then hopefully. Fix those. So you're reducing any future patient drop-off. So they don't go into what I like to call the post console black hole, where you just don't hear from them. And you don't understand why.
This is just giving you a huge opportunity to be better.
Griffin Jones: [00:30:41] So I know that patient satisfaction data is part of the arsenal that you like to use for referring provider strategies. We're not going to get into it today. I want to keep the people chomping for more. So they'll have to tune back in when we do an episode about referring provider strategies.
But I do want to get your thoughts on why patient satisfaction, even though it's often like the 4th. You might think it appears in the fourth phase, it's part of delight, but why is it so important to measure when you're working in the third phase when you're trying to convert people to treatment?
Stephanie Linder: [00:31:23] Yeah, I mean, I mentioned this a bit earlier, but half of your patients, at least likely won't proceed to treatment at least immediately. So you want to know what's happening post consult so that you can fix it for the next patient or even fix it and address it for this patient.
So essentially though your more positive reviews are going to, if you could take the patient journey, that's now flat, probably on your screen and make it 3d and turn it into a funnel. The people that leave positive reviews are going to be essentially your biggest fans, your biggest word of mouth referrals that will talk to your friends at the dinner party.
Go back to their OB and brag about how wonderful and patient-centric their physician is. And that's essentially funneling more patients back into. The first phase, which is just getting more new patients in your door. And that's also the goal of this patient satisfaction survey is to know who is speaking positively about UC.
You can even ask them proactively to leave a positive online review in a public-facing forum like Yelp or Google or Fertility IQ.
Griffin Jones: [00:32:31] Yeah. I just blanked on my conclusion, but I'm just gonna. Wrap up here. So we're going to go into some of those tactics that you can do specifically for IVF conversion rate. I think we'll have you back on Stephanie. That's what we'll talk about next is IVF conversion rates specifically, and things people can do to impact their IVF conversion rate positively.
There's nine reasons why patients aren't continuing all the way through treatment.
One of them has to do with money. Two of them have to do with the clinic side. All of them have to do with communication. And there's four things, four key performance indicators that you need to measure to complete that IVF goal. And if you're at new patients already, if you're at your new patient goal, then there's really three.
And we talked about those today. IVF conversion rate, online reputation and patient satisfaction. We can talk more about those in detail, but if you'd like to talk more about them in detail with us and have us look at your situation, have us assess where your efforts are impacting the third phase of the fertility patient marketing journey.
You can talk with both Stephanie and I, because that happens in the goal diagnostic. You can sign up for it www.Fertilitybridge.com. You've heard the commercials and we can zoom in and talk just about that particular part of the journey. If that's the goal that you are striving towards. So Steph,, thanks for coming on, and I look forward to going into some of these more deeply in future articles and future podcast episodes.
Stephanie Linder: [00:34:11] I do as well. Thanks.
Narrator: [00:34:14] You've been listening to the inside reproductive health podcast with Griffin Jones. If you're ready to take action, to make sure that your practice thrives beyond the revolutionary changes that are happening in our field and in society, visit Fertility Bridge.com to begin the first piece of the fertility marketing system, the goal and competitive diagnostic.
Thank you for listening to Inside Reproductive Health.