On this episode of Inside Reproductive Health, Griffin talks to Dr. Matt Retzloff of Fertility Center of San Antonio. This time, they discuss how Fertility Bridge was able to help FCSA increase their new patient appointments, ramp up their referral network, and ultimately increase their retrievals after years of plateauing and even dropping.
Mentioned in this Episode:
82- The Business Case for Fertility Surgery
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Welcome to Inside Reproductive Health, the shoptalk of the fertility field. Here, you'll hear authentic and unscripted conversations about practice management, patient relations, and business development from the most forward-thinking experts in our field.
Wall Street and Silicon Valley both want your patients, but there is a plan if you're willing to take action. Visit fertilitybridge.com to learn about the first piece of building a Fertility Marketing System--The Goal and Competitive Diagnostic. Now, here's the founder of Fertility Bridge and the host of Inside Reproductive Health, Griffin Jones.
JONES 2:03
I'm having a bonus conversation with Dr. Matt Retzloff. He's from the Fertility Center of San Antonio and we have worked with them. So I want to explore what that's been like and share that with all of you. Matt, could we maybe start with, he called me about--we've known each other for a while--he called me about a year ago, wanting some help. And can you talk about what the impetus for that was?
RETZLOFF 2:30
Sure, yeah, no, I remember it well. And, you know, if I was to take us back about a year ago, really what we were starting to experience--we had hired a new partner, a new partner-physician, and, really we had had pretty steady growth over time, but it was--that growth was sort of plateauing when it really should have continued up and even really, really started to decline a bit. And as a group, we really started to look internally at what we were doing, whether, you know, it was services provided, whether it was a marketing issue, and within marketing, what were the techniques we were using, we're we can really kind of keeping up with what we needed to? And really, quite honestly, it was--we felt it was really necessary to really get an outside look. We had really done a lot internally, we needed an outside look, really felt we were missing opportunities. We knew we had the, you know, best physicians, we had best practices. But that's not enough anymore. And we realized that wasn't enough. And we needed a better opportunity to take advantage of, more specifically, social media, make it a more personable experience, make it more of a hands-on, Hey, we're a family with the patients and reach out and reach out to them in the avenues that they used, that we weren't using I don't think at that time.
JONES
So you're growing for a while, then that stops, started to decline in volumes and new consults, what does that do to the business, the practice?
RETZLOFF
I mean, it really just increases the stress level of the practice. I mean, you've got, you still have your fixed expenses, your variable expenses, you've got, typically, you know, all the employees you're trying to meet really on a month to month basis, and anyone that's in private practice knows that, you know, at the end of the month, you got to cover all your expenses first. And as your revenues begin to decline, well, that actually begins to increase stress and you start becoming less effective doing what you're doing as the physician who really should be spending more time practicing medicine, practicing good medicine with each patient, you spend more time saying, Hey, I need to go out and spend more time drumming up business and so you each try to do things differently, and I think become a little less efficient, disjointed and not really effective in bringing in and reinvigorating that patient base.
JONES 5:02
So it came time, there was a need, how did--we're not the first marketing company you've ever worked with. There have been others and also others they've called on you. How is our approach different?
RETZLOFF 5:16
Well, I mean, a couple of things. First off, I've known you for a long time personally, but hey, we're a group of four physicians here and I don't make all the decisions, obviously. They're all group decisions and so we've tried to give opportunities to several outside sources, kind of, what do you have to offer to us? Some came to us, was really strictly a website-based. You need to improve your website and you know, your patients aren't seeing the website and that's not translating into new patient visits. Others you know, focus on Facebook or focus on office visits and continue to do luncheons and getting out there getting face time with the OB/GYNs. So we looked at each one and we kind of looked at the breakdown. Interestingly enough, several of them worked not just in the fertility field, but they worked in other fields too, whether it was general OB/GYN, surgical fields, and REI and the practice of fertility is really unique. And I say that I'm probably very biased, obviously, but I don't think you can apply the same approach to an REI practice and the practice of fertility medicine with others. I don't think it works. And so what Fertility Bridge really brought to us was a focused, multi-faceted approach, yet really unique to fertility. And you brought the experience and brought sort of the accolades that came with the work you've done with other practices. It wasn't just this is what we're gonna do for you, this is what we've done for others. And it really made a big impression.
JONES 6:53
I have my own hypotheses about why it doesn't work as well for agencies that might be all health care. Why do you think it doesn't work?
RETZLOFF 7:05
The fertility--or patients that are experiencing infertility, there's an emotional component to it that I think really is unique. You might be able to translate it almost to the practice of oncology or cancer patients where the impact on an individual is unique to that particular individual. And if you can't make that connection, that emotional connection, that personal connection with the patient, and your attempts to bring them in to see you don't, sort of, strike a chord with them and that in that approach, then I think you'll fail miserably. And I just think it's a unique, it's that more emotional personal tie that's very unique to fertility.
JONES 7:50
I think so too. That was the first thing that I noticed when I started working with clinics in 2014 because I've had LASIK surgery, I feel very strongly about my surgeon, I really believe in the benefit of having LASIK. If you walk around with pain all the time, and an orthopedic surgeon replaces your knee and your hip, I'd imagine you feel very strongly about them and really believe in the process. It's just not the same as having a child. It isn't. And it just also is in the pain, the social stigma, the everything else that makes that community a community.
RETZLOFF 8:37
And well, I mean, you're the examples you gave right there, you're gonna speak to your family about your knee surgery, you're gonna talk to everybody about your LASIK surgery. There are a lot of couples out there, individuals who are experiencing infertility who feel like they're isolated, they can't really speak to others. And if they do speak to others, they're speaking two different languages and it's kind of like the old Venus and Mars discussion. And, you know, as a practicing fertility specialist, I would take it so far as to say when you went to go look for your LASIK surgery or your knee surgery, you were quite honestly looking for a technician. You were looking for someone who was skilled with that particular procedure. The emotions and the other ties didn't necessarily need to be there, quite honestly.
JONES 9:23
Yeah, that's true. My ophthalmologist could have been a total--
RETZLOFF 9:28
You have been just fine. But he's great. And you got a great surgery. Yeah, absolutely.
JONES 9:34
So that's why I feel strongly about sub specializing. When I first started doing this--I belong to a group of other business development and marketing agency owners, and I constantly talk about subspecialize, subspecialize, niche, niche, niche and the resistance that I often get are people feel like it's limiting. And if my team was just doing this all the time--and it's like, you are just going deeper and deeper, and there is no bottom. So I've gone more into this than anybody and I still feel like you could fill the Staples Center with what I don't know. The first thing I ever figured out was, Oh, you can get a lot of word of mouth referrals from organic social media, that was the first thing. That does not always equate to a top line spike in and of itself. There's everything along the way. And then you start to work on the next thing and the next thing, and you start to make it a system and that's how we approached the conversation with you all, but I'm very insistent that give me a business goal. Give me a business goal. Let me solve that with marketing and business. But don't give me a task list of we have to do this many social media posts this, this spend on Adwords--give me the business goal. If I'm accountable for it, make me accountable for it. And so I think that sometimes I turn people away from that because they just want to give people a checklist. You gave us a business goal. How did you feel about that process in terms of working towards a marketing goal versus working towards a business goal?
RETZLOFF 11:29
I do think they're, you know, really, they have to be tied together. And in one of our very first meetings, you don't sort of just break down with let's talk about the tasks, let's talk about the endpoint. And where do you all want to be? We talked about, you know, our five years strategic goals, 10 years strategic goals, where do we really want to be as a practice? And how does, how can the marketing tools be used to kind of reach whatever those goals are. And I would expect--obviously, I've just seen our sort of algorithm that you've come up with based on our goals--I can imagine that's not necessarily exactly the same for every practice. And, you know, it really has to be customized, based on whatever the unique goals or whatever the environment is for that particular practice. But I felt good that, you know, based on our goals, based on how you said we'd get from point A to point B, and have some metrics along the way that didn't just say, Hey, we're going to start now in next year, let's see if we got there. You said, Hey, every month, we're going to say, Hey, are we moving in the right direction, we got a green light, yellow light, or red light? And let's look at each of those areas and how we're going to kind of make all those green lights so that when we get to the endpoint, I mean, the process spoke for itself. We didn't even have to ask ourselves did we get here, you just look across, you got green lights, you made it. So the system kind of almost answered your questions real-time as you're moving forward, and you feel more comfortable and confident in the process. When you see those changes in real-time, and not just Hey, you're in a vacuum, you go off and say you're going to come back in a year and tell us we're going to be there.
**COMMERCIAL BREAK**
I would be a bad fertility doctor, because I only want to take on the cases that I know are going to be successful. I only want people to say these sorts of things about me and my company, like Greg in Chicago: "Our resources are not endless. And I think that with Fertility Bridge, there's a much deeper dive."
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JONES 15:25
When it came time--so first we looked at the red lights and said, Okay, and these are what we've got to make yellow and green and then we made the plan. At that point with the plan that you're called on by other agencies, a couple of them, one you've been working with, another one that you hadn't been, both just large healthcare agencies, like the ones you described earlier, that just kind of do everything say, Hey, we'll get you more new patient leads, whatever. And we were more expensive than they were and probably not by terribly much, but not by a little either. And you all had a decision to make, you ended up going with us. Why?
RETZLOFF 16:18
Well, I think that the others appeared to be more sort of prefabricated processes. Basically, we offer this to fertility practices, we could have been fertility practice X, Y, or Z and I felt like we were going to get the same sales pitch. And it really wasn't tailored to what we needed or wanted. That's one reason. The other reason is that expense is all relative. I wouldn't consider myself completely business savvy, obviously I'm trying to learn every day. But if you spend $10,000 on some particular product or service, and it returns $50,000, that was cheap. If you spend $10,000--if you spend $5,000, and it returns you $1,000, it's very expensive. So it's not the actual amount you're spending, it's what you're going to get in return to what you spend, and I think that's one of the very most difficult concepts--at least myself pretty much--kind of really get a good grip on saying, don't just look at the number and say, Damn, that's a lot of money. Yeah, you do have to look because you've got a budget for that. But you got to look at what is that going to buy me. And really, I felt better that what we were getting for our money. Yeah, maybe a little more expensive dollar bottom line, but the return potential was so much greater, and really was--I was much more optimistic that it would be, in the long run, better for the practice.
JONES 17:55
That's my recommendation to people. Look at the desired future state. You have to look at every expense as a business owner, every single one, you also have to look at the desired future state and what's getting you there to help measure those. And when I look at a consultant, I look at what is my desired future state and then price only comes in after my confidence in how much one of them is going to get me towards the goal comes in. If I feel like they're both getting there, then I might go with the cheaper one. But if it's, you know--this one's cheap, but I just don't believe they're gonna get me to my goal. And this one I feel very strongly with and I know what my goal is, it doesn't matter if I'm paying them $5,000 a month and they're helping me make 15 then it's much cheap--that's a much better investment than and less expensive than me spending $2,000 a month and getting nothing.
RETZLOFF 18:52
Absolutely. And I mean, I won't forget to I think, you know, when you come and present what you can do for a particular practice, it's a two-way street. I look at it as a business deal, a business deal from the perspective of, Hey, we want you to make us better, but we've got to be a good fit for you. And I'll never forget, you said, Hey, look, if I come down there--you and I knew each other personally didn't know the practice so well--but when you come down here, if what you see doesn't fit for what you can do, hey, you were ready to say, honestly, we may have wanted you, but you may not have, you know, felt like you could be good for us. And that was kind of unique as well. Others said, hey, I've got a product to sell you. It wasn't a two-way street, I've got a product I want you to buy. It didn't really matter what we were you kind of see where I'm going with that. That make sense?
JONES 19:40
Yeah, um, I would say that I would be a crappy fertility doctor because I would be one that is loading my caseload only with ones that I think I can help to make my success rates go up. And so when you did call me, I was skeptical at first and I was pleasantly surprised. And if I can say as much on the recording, my team was pleasantly surprised that--we really appreciated how much you all have bought in and actually been involved in the process. And, you know, some of the partners that you have are a little bit older, and we're bringing new technology and new media and they've embraced in my opinion. And why do you think that is? They could have just as easily said, No, but you were all able to get on the same page. How did that happen?
RETZLOFF 20:35
Yeah, I was completely--my expectations were just blown out of the water honestly, about what you were able to muster for our practice. And we had everyone involved, physicians, physicians who didn't have the IT experience, you have nurses, the admin, one of our nurses is doing a lot of our internal processes to sort of bring us together here boots on the ground, if you may. The laboratory, I mean, they looked at an opportunity, you think they weren't back in the lab, let's bring them out of the lab, let's put them at the forefront. Let's get them out there for the patients to see. And we're really able, and gosh, pleasantly surprised would be an understatement to see what was able to be accomplished. And I would say even going forward, as a consultant, you offer that opportunity to say, Hey, look, I'm not here to partner with you lifelong, necessarily. I'm here to teach you and how we can do this better. If in a year or two, it doesn't work, then you go on and kind of do your own things. But as a consultant, that's probably going to bring you two or three more, you know, references and you'll continue to grow, whether it's with us or not. But I really felt like Hey, we're here to teach you. If we as Fertility Bridge go away, for whatever reason, tomorrow, you still can build on what we've taught you. So in other words, we were learning to do it from within. It wasn't some sort of a, I'm now dependent on you to do what you brought to the practice.
JONES 22:03
Yeah, that just has to be able to work. We can only do so--there's only so many things that we can entirely take the rest has to be given to the DNA of the group. I was--in concluding this conversation, I was listening to a speaker that was talking about the different vantage points that you can bring someone with value--it's deep expertise. I think I want to say commitment to success, but I might have to relay that other one. And an enjoyable experience. You can have two out of three, but not all three. And I think the one where were weakest as is an enjoyable experience in terms of you know, we have people get--we have people work on important things and we have hard conversations, sometimes my project manager stays on staff to do their thing--
RETZLOFF 23:04
But it's not scripted. You know, it's very natural. You kind of--it's not like you give us a script to read off. I mean, honestly, I don't even know trying to do the shows whatever it happens to be I just, you're like just be yourself. You do it every day. You just got to be yourself and then it didn't become an extra task, it actually became more of an enjoyable, hey, let's just show what we do. And I think everyone then started to buy-in and even, you know, physician levels and really at all levels.
JONES 23:32
Do you have any critiques or criticisms that we could work on?
RETZLOFF 23:35
Gosh, I mean, I would only say throw the COVID pandemic right into the middle of all this, right? And it's not a critique is actually more of a compliment to say, you know, to be able to sort of shift real-time, reinvent yourself, projects that were really sort of this is our algorithm, but we had a lot of forks in the road that we didn't expect were going to be there. And I really think you came up with alternatives that I mean, just use the, you know, the baby reunion, which we had really had high hopes for, and still hope to do at some point, once we can get this pandemic behind us. But instead of that, we went to some video shoots that really got patient involvement, separate platforms, but yet will still come to bring them together. And, I mean, I really use those as more of a compliment. Your staff, they've all have the experience, whether it's with fertility themselves, or just the practice of fertility medicine. I honestly, you know, communications always--I'd have to be reaching to sort of say, that's, it's always good. It's good to see your emails to sort of say, Hey, I like that real-time. I kind of alluded to it earlier. I'm not someone who says let's get this project going, tell me when the project's over. It's I want to know real time, hey, because this is all formative we need to make changes as we go. And we can all expect it--hey, the pandemic is going to hit right in the middle of all this right because we started this project before even we even knew what COVID was. So you know, here we are today, and I couldn't be happier with where we are.
Griffin 25:10
Dr. R, I appreciate the kind words. It's been great to work with you all to hopefully get to keep this relationship for a while and I just really appreciate the compliments.
RETZLOFF 25:21
Appreciate all you guys have done and it's been a pleasure to work with all of you at Fertility Bridge.
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You’ve been listening to the Inside Reproductive Health Podcast with Griffin Jones. If you're ready to take action to make sure that your practice drives beyond the revolutionary changes that are happening in our field and in society, visit fertiltybridge.com to begin the first piece of the Fertility Marketing System, the Goal and Competitive Diagnostic. Thank you for listening to Inside Reproductive Health.