With a journey as emotional as infertility, it can be hard for patients to take a step back and laugh at the process. On this episode of Inside Reproductive Health, Griffin talks to Karen Jeffries (or as you might know her, @hilariously_infertile), a fertility patient trying to help others through their journeys with a little bit of humor. They talk about her fertility journey and how it impacted where she is today. They also discuss how providers can better communicate with their patients and the importance of transparency.
Want more laughs? Karen will be performing a show live in Boston, MA on November 10th. Learn more and purchase tickets here.
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Welcome to Inside Reproductive Health, the shoptalk of the fertility field. Here, you'll hear authentic and unscripted conversations about practice management, patient relations, and business development from the most forward-thinking experts in our field.
Wall Street and Silicon Valley both want your patients, but there is a plan if you're willing to take action. Visit fertilitybridge.com to learn about the first piece of building a Fertility Marketing System--The Goal and Competitive Diagnostic. Now, here's the founder of Fertility Bridge and the host of Inside Reproductive Health, Griffin Jones.
GRIFFIN JONES: Today we have an interesting change of pace on the Inside Reproductive Health podcast. Karen Jeffries is a fourth-grade dual-language teacher outside of New York. She didn't consider herself a writer by trade, but she did write a hilarious book about infertility. That's probably how you know her, as Hilariously Infertile on social media where she has over 60,000 followers on her different platforms and has used to sell her book worldwide. She's on the board of Baby Quest Foundation. She does comedy nights--has done a very successful one in New York City at Westside Comedy Club, has another one coming up in Boston, which is the Hilariously Infertile Boston Comedy Night at the Regent Theater, Arlington, Massachusetts, Sunday, November 10th at 7 p.m. Tickets are on sale now. More than anything, Karen hopes to help other women through their infertility treatments one laugh at a time. I know that she does because that's how we got connected was people telling me how funny that she was and how much they enjoyed following her on social. So Ms. Jeffries, Karen, welcome to Inside Reproductive Health!
KAREN JEFFRIES: Thank you so much for having me.
JONES: So let's keep the profanity to a minimum, but other than that, I don't care where this goes! This is really a nice thing to have you on because most of our audience is REI physicians, practice owners, practice managers. So you’re the first comedian on the show!
JEFFRIES: Yeah, there’s always a first!
JONES: At least the first one that gets paid for it! When did you start discovering that this was a particular niche? Where you a comedian who then went through the infertility journey and started experiencing that? Or where you just starting to share your infertility journey and realized, hey, I’m pretty funny?
JEFFRIES: Yeah, so I’m definitely not a comedian. Like you said, I teach fourth grade dual-language (Spanish and English). So I went through my infertility struggles and I never had social media, I never had a personal Facebook account, like I had nothing. And when I was on maternity leave with my second daughter, I was helping a friend and a family member through their cycles. And my husband were doing dishes one night and I said, “Well, you know, so-and-so is ovulating, so it’s go time for her. And so-and-so’s follicles are 17 millimeters, so I think she's going to have her IUI on Sunday.” And he was like, “I think that you should write a book about this!” And I was like, “Oh, ha ha ha. I don’t even have time to read a book, let alone write a book.” And I kind of laughed him off and I didn’t think anything of it and then, I would say a few weeks later, I sat down one day with my laptop and I started writing and it just poured out of me. And as I was writing, I was like, you know what, this is funny and snarky and inappropriate in the way that women really talk when we are really talking to each other. And five weeks later, the book was pretty much done and it hadn’t gone through that many edits since then. And then I didn't know that you have to be famous to get published, so I started sending it to all these publishing companies and agents in New York City and they either didn't respond or the ones that they respond said, “We just don't think it's a big enough market.” And to me, that just fuels my fire because I was like, no, that's the problem, right? You don't think it’s a big enough market because people aren’t talking about it and people are home suffering and crying themselves to sleep and thinking that they're alone. I was just like, I can't have that. So one of my friends said, you need to get on social media and you need to get a website. I was like, I hate social media. And he was like, this is what you have to do! So, I started social media and I started Hilariously Infertile. And I remember in the beginning, I was just shocked when--I remember when I hit 300 followers! I was just like, oh my goodness. I cannot believe that there are 300 people out there who want to see this content and also want to laugh about infertility. And it just kind of grew and grew and grew and as the platform grew, I realized that last summer was a good summer to publish the book. I still went through a self-publishing company because I’m still not famous, still can’t published by a “real publishing company.” But I thought it was really important to just get this book out there and to help people feel so they feel like they aren’t alone. So definitely not a comedian! I just kind of started talking about it and people latched on, I guess.
JONES: I want to zoom out and share part of the connection of why it makes sense to have you on a show like this that's mostly for practice owners, and doctors, and practice managers, because they’re often telling me about the different challenges in communicating with patients. There's so many challenges in communicating with patients. Patients are coming in having read Dr. Google; they're looking at reviews before they come in; they're seeing what a friend said they did on Instagram and then questioning their prognosis if it's not the same; they're doing so many different--they’re finding doctors in different ways and sometimes they aren't coming in as quickly as they should be for optimal help--and that can frustrate providers that if she had just come two or three years earlier, I would have so many more options to be able to help her and been more quickly and cost effectively. And so there's always challenges in that communication, but when it comes down to get them to actually communicate with their patients, it’s like everything has to be perfect for them. I've had clients that won't do any kind of social media video on their phone--it has to be cinematography and bringing in the videographer and the whole production and the editing to do it. Some people won't post something on social media unless it's like, everything is lined up perfectly and has their design and their logo in the right corner. And then here you come and just with the most cavalier--I don't want to say cavalier, but I do want to say candid way of speaking are doing so at mass because it's so authentic.
JEFFRIES: Yeah, and I think that’s what people really resonate with is the fact that it’s just me. It’s just me remembering what it was like to be going through infertility and finding these funny things and posting them. I don't really curate what I post, I’m not like ooohhh. And sometimes, there have been times when a couple posts, I’ve gotten bad feedback and I’ve been like, oh, ok, maybe that was distasteful and that’s good, I need that line, like most people do. But it’s just me. I’m in my pajamas, I’m posting, I’m talking about this, that or the other, and it’s just real life. So I don’t really filter what comes out of my mouth and I don’t really filter my content either. And I think, in terms of doctors, what I’ve found in clinics in general is that clinics and doctors are starting to look at more like the whole patient now. And I don’t know if you agree with this. But I’ve had patients come to me, followers come to me and say, my nurse actually recommended you, or my ultrasound technician said, do you follow Hilariously Infertile? And I’m like, oh my gosh, what clinic was that? Because I want to reach out to them and I want to thank them and I think that’s so amazing that they were saying, look, we’re going to take care of you from, like, your waist down, but from the waist up, if you need a laugh or if you need to feel like every thought you’re having is 100% sane and you’re not losing your mind, go to this! And I think that’s actually a really good way that doctors can connect with their patients as well.
JONES: I know we used to do it and we probably haven't updated it with our new onboarded clients, but we used to have a list, and you are on there, it’s a list of 12 blogs and podcasts and we would give it to clients to say, give this to your patients. When you have patients come in, just give them this resource of, here's some--we had another one with support groups and with other resources, but here's some blogs and some podcasts you can listen to, here are some forums. We don't necessarily recommend all of them or you know, whatever legal disclaimer, but here's a resource for you. And so, I think I would also want to commend whatever ultrasound tech or nurse is recommending you to patients because one, they're doing something else to add value in that relationship and that is a more holistic form of care; and then two, it just shows me that there on the pulse of what's going on in the community.
JEFFRIES: Yeah, exactly and they understand that all that funny stuff about the progesterone suppositories or the progesterone in oil injections. It is funny if you get past, like, how devastating it is, which it is, and I’m not negating that and nor any place on my platform am I negating the tears and the sadness and the sorrow. But if you can get past that, there are some really funny parts, you know what I mean? Everything having to do with the sperm donation, everything about that, I find hilarious! And it just does not get any funnier to me than like men having to give their donation and there being a sliding door and a person standing right there, you know what I mean? It’s just hilarious! So, I think it’s great that we’re looking at all of that, especially in clinics.
JONES: You really do a good job of balancing that somehow, because it is gut-wrenching for people. That's like, there's nothing funny about it except for all of the things that you’re sharing that are funny when looked at in a different light, but you recognize that the serious side of it, too. I just saw though of this and if I were a better podcast host, I would have sent the clip to you in case you hadn't seen it, but have you ever seen Daniel Tosh's bit on infertility?
JEFFRIES: No, I haven’t! I love him!
JONES: It’s ruthless. I don't know if anybody who's listening has ever listened to it. It is brutal. Do not listen to it if you don't like cringe comedy, don’t listen to it if you're not prepared to be directly insulted, but he has a bit about infertility, I want to say it’s called Buff is the name of the track? Maybe we'd link in the show notes, maybe we don't, but I had my Creative Director--or I just asked her if she listened to and then of course, she went and listened to it despite my warnings against it--she wasn't bothered because she enjoys cringe comedy, I think she thought it was funny. But is it your style of humor? Is it cringe? I know you've got a bar-room type of humor, let's say, but do you ever really try to gut punch people?
JEFFRIES: I would say probably not as much as Daniel Tosh. I know that there are some times that he, I mean, I watch a lot of his stuff. I remember one time I watched and he was talking about how people get offended at his content. And he was like, “I’m sorry that you got upset about my mythical creature baby of Brad Pitt and someone else.” And I just thought hat is really funny because I can relate to that because people will get upset about things! Like, how could I have possibly known that was a situation that was going on. One time I was on a field trip with my students and afterwards I was like, “Yay! We didn’t lose anyone and no one died!” And someone DM’d me and they were like, “I’m just saying someone had an accident on one of the field trips…” And I was like that’s not what I meant! That’s impossible for me to know that and I’m sorry for your tragedy. In terms of my comedy, I consider it 7th grade boy humor, that’s my go-to. It’s a lot of dicks and vaginas, right? A lot of that type of humor. And I talk about--the one thing that I try to push and this actually happened at the New York City comedy. So one time, I met the people who bought the sperm because my fertility doctor said that when my husband comes to give his donation, and these were his exact words, that the lab on site will clean and buff his sperm. I remember being like, what? Are you kidding me? I was dying! And my husband and I immediately--are you picturing Oompa Loompas cleaning each individual sperm? Because that’s what we were picturing! And so I was doing this speech, sometimes I do it at doctor clinics also because they need motivational speakers to come and be like, you’re doing a great job, here’s my patient perspective, just to give them a little perspective and motivation. So there were these two women in the front row and they were like, “That’s us!” And I was like, “Wait, stop. You’re the Oompa Loompas?” And they were like, “Yes, that’s us!” I was like, “Are you guys in relationships?” And they were like, “Yes.” And I was like, “Heterosexual relationships? Like with men?” And they were like, “Yes.” And so my whole bit in this show is like, it takes a really strong man man to be in a relationship with someone who looks at semen analysis all day long. Because, like what would you do?! I would have an anxiety attack if I was seeing someone and he was like, “I analyze feminine discharge for a living.” I would be like, “Oh my God, you’re never seeing my discharge!” You know what I mean? So then I go into this thing about how like every man would be like, “Well, what if my guys aren’t swimmers? What if they just want to sit on the couch with their hands down their pants? Or what if I had some asparagus (which the joke is that, I mean, obviously that changes the dynamic of your donation, I’ve been told)? Stuff like that. I think that people like, when I did it, didn’t really know what to expect and can I laugh at this woman making fun of men being obsessed about their semen? Like, I don’t know! It was interesting. But I would say that’s about as far as it goes in terms of things like that. So it’s kind of like in there, not quite Daniel Tosh, but right along 7th grade boy.
JONEES: Do do this--you speak to clinic staff sometimes?
JEFFRIES: Yeah. Yeah, so if anyone listening is interested! Some doctors or some staff members don’t get to spend that much time with the patients, or some staff members are just in the grind. And I talk about the fertility clinic rules, like the unspoken rules about how--you’re not allowed to talk in a fertility clinic, there's no smiling, no salutations, and one receptionist who actually was the receptionist when I was going to this clinic, she came up to me and she was like, “But you don’t get it. You’re so right about those rules, but those rules apply to us, too!” She said, “We don’t feel like we can talk to be happy because it’s such a serious place.” And then she got pregnant and she was like, “Do you know how long I tried to hide this?!” You know? Because she felt like she had to hide it. I was like, that has got to be so tough for practitioners and people who are working in clinics to have to go that emotionally every day and also all the sadness that comes with it. So I have done this speech for different clinics and stuff and it just kind of like a reminder of you’re doing a great job and you’re needed and even though maybe you’re giving bad news, you’re a huge part of making families and helping people move forward in their fertility and I just think that what they’re doing is amazing. So that’s what I try to bring to them.
JONES: I think you have a good way of looking at both and communicating like both different perspectives. The fact that you even noticed that about the staff and what they have to go through is important to share with patients, as well as what patients sometimes perceive that maybe the clinic isn't readily paying attention to. I think that's really important and not just to decide one way or the other and I think it's a good example for clinics, too is that sometimes they feel like there's just beat up on online reviews. Sometimes they feel like, well I don't like social media, I don't really enjoy doing this stuff. Or they feel patient expectations are so unrealistic. Then tell your story. You have to tell your story. And you don't have to do it in a way that says that yours is wrong, but like why don't you show us what compassion fatigue is? Why don’t you show us the volume of calls that you have to deal with? Why don't you show--why don’t you tell us some stories about really hard news that you had to give? You know, not everybody has to be funny, and not everybody has to be sexy, not everybody has to be debonaire, but if you just tell us what you're going through, I think that addresses that same concern that that you just brought up.
JEFFRIES: Exactly. And I think especially with doctors and practitioners, that vulnerability opens you up--like people will accept that. And it really--if someone were to get on, whether it is social media or just with their patients, and be like listen, I have this one patient, I don’t know what’s going on. and just show that vulnerability because that’s real, you know? Like let down that wall and people are attracted to that. Not like in a negative way where they want to see you crying social media, it’s not like that. But that vulnerability, that honesty, that truth serum is a great thing. So, yeah and it is hard for them, too! It’s hard for us. It's hard for them and it's not really that fun of a place. And then, I always say, when you do have good news, you graduate, right? And so that's also for them, too. When one of their patients does get pregnant, they leave. And then they’re also working with trying to get everyone else or new patients that are trying to get pregnant. So we do have that some of those celebratory moments, it's like so fleeting and then they’re gone onto their regular OB/GYN and then you're still working with the next one. So it doesn't make it's not important, it's so still so important, but they don't really experience that and then they don’t know what happens. They don't necessarily get like baby pictures or a Christmas card. They’re still in it and it weighs on them. It weighs on everyone!
JONES: Lindsay from InfertileAF and I talked about this on this show because the alternative to not sharing this is whatever the person creates in their head based on the experience they have, based on what they're going through, and how they feel at that time. So if you're not sharing what compassion fatigue looks like or discussing why it's so difficult to give someone a prognosis and be really strong about your recommendation, but also not feel like you're pushing it on them. If you're not showing us your side of the nuance, then I'm just going to make up whatever the heck is in my head. And that's when you get things like he's a money grubber, she called me fat, she called me old, and we see online reviews like this all the time. And sometimes you get a pylon. That’s what everybody’s really afraid of. I think it's not just the one off, but sometimes you do get a pylon and and then other times you have your people--the people that are really satisfied with their care, that really appreciate it--that come to the defense and hopefully, you're building that proactively so it's not responding and creating some sort of Internet fight. But by doing that, you do have a way of changing the narrative and not falling into that trap.
JEFFRIES: I totally agree. And I think also, you know, last year was my first year going to ASRM, which as you guys know--I mean my followers don’t know--but the American Society for Reproductive Medicine, the big conference. I had never been before and when I went, I found it so eye-opening not just to me, but to my followers, first of all. I got a million DMs of like, my doctor’s there, my doctor’s there. Like people were like, “Oh yeah, that’s why I didn’t see my doctor today! I saw a different doctor because my doctor’s there!”And then I had some random videos of doctors--so you guys know this, but for my followers--they have like prosthetic vaginas at this thing. I mean, you walk in and it is unreal. I mean, you’ve been there. There’s prosthetic vaginas, there’s speculums, there’s this, there’s that, there's semen hanging from the ceiling, like it is crazy. And I took a video of this one doctor using this new equipment, I guess, I don’t know, device, on this prosthetic vagina with a speculum inside. And I was just like, shut up. To a regular person, this is crazy! And the doctor happened to be a number of my followers and people, I think, really, really liked seeing the doctors like that, you know? And then I had I took some video at one of those big parties--which you would not know that like their fertility doctor actually goes to these massive parties, right? And I took some videos and I was like, guys, this is what your doctors do! They are human and they’re party--
JONES: But can we talk about that for a second? Because I said--the first of those big parties that I ever went to--I've said it on the podcast, I have said it in meetings with clients, and I said it in meetings with the people that throw these meetings. They’re lucky that you find that cool, Karen, and that you want to share that and it's like, hey your doctors can get down! But here's the problem, if they're not telling their story, and being occasionally transparent and honest, and then you come in and you say here's what your doctors are doing!
JEFFRIES: True.
JONES: Right? Like I tell people that all the time. I said, this is a liability if it's used against you and if it deserves to be used against you. So I tell people from the beginning, when my team starts and they've never been to this industry-side, I say, there's some big parties. I go. I have fun. That's the type of person. I'm not worried about something being taken on like some video being shared and going viral, like look at what Griffin is doing because--! My parents know that. I don't get super drunk and I don't touch people where they should be touched! And people just expect that! People know that I'm a fun guy, I'm social, I like dancing, that is shared. People know that because they follow me on social media. So if somebody comes to one of those parties and puts me on blast. it's like, well you knew that he was going to get down to the Cupid Shuffle, like he already told us that! But, if the same person does it and the same person is pulling me aside and it gets put on Huffington Post or Jezebel or any Vice, any number of things that could really distribute and reach widely and quickly and it's like, oh that's where my IVF money went that I got a second mortgage on my house,that's why my waiting list to see my doctor is six weeks long? So I think this is really important to talk about because I want to be on the right side of this. And I say this so transparently because I only envision these things happening. And the fact that you went, you noticed this and you did it, means that it's possible. You just happen to have a perspective of this is cool, this is fun. I don't think that there's anything inherently wrong with it. I don't think there's anything wrong with big parties. I don't think that there's even wrong with some wining and dining, as long as it's not this secretive thing that is contrary to the image that’s otherwise portrayed.
JEFFRIES: And to the goal. And to the goal, which is helping people, right? I totally agree. I think that as long as everything's happening in a tasteful manner and it's not abusive to, I guess--I guess a lot of the funding, well, not a lot, but some of the funding is coming from the patient’s pocket, right? Because they’re paying for the drugs, the drugs are on the market, the insurance is paying for the drugs, you know what I mean? Or whatever.
JONES: Well, at the end of the day, it’s all coming from them. If we trace it all the way back--
JEFFRIES: Exactly.
JONES: One could always make that argument.
JEFFRIES: Right. So as long as it is an abuse of the patient, of the patient’s money and stuff like that, I think that--I mean, it was really eye-opening for a lot of my followers. And this guy--and I was like, is it ok that I did this? And before I did it, I said, “I’m going to post this, is that ok?” And he was like, “Yeah, yeah, that’s fine!” Because I wouldn’t have just posted it of this guy putting a catheter into a vagina without his permission. And it was just so funny the feedback and so many women message me like, “That’s my doctor! Oh my God, I’m going to see him on Tuesday! He’s going to be doing that to me on Tuesday, actually.” And I was like, “Oh, that’s so funny!” And then it brought them together, you know? LIke, they were like, “That’s my doctor! I’m going to tell him I saw him on Hilariously Infertile!” Or “That’s so-and-so,” and it actually had them connect in a way that they wouldn’t have already connected if it was just another regular Tuesday morning ultrasound or whatever. But I think that that is also important--that connection of like, we’re human. We go to these conferences, we’re there to learn, also this other stuff happens and if they’re seeing me and they connect with me, and a lot of my patients--or my followers are a lot of their patients, there’s a connection there. And it makes them seem human and approachable as opposed to like this doctor who is sitting there with his or her hands clasped and saying, “These are your options. I advise you to do this, however--” You know? It just brings it more familiar and, like I said, approachable.
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JONES: To clarify, I don't want to take the transparency thing to extreme, because I think it can be definitely taken to an extreme and probably is when you hear people talk in Silicon Valley about transparency etcetera. I'm not saying you should like put everything on Facebook Live Instagram or that they’re not entitled to privacy. What I am saying is that check your liabilities and just by letting people know like, hey, I go out sometimes. I enjoy it. I really like going out with other doctors. Sometimes we act silly. And sometimes these are people that I haven't seen in a long time, who I did fellowship training with, and we get to each other once in a while. And I only spend two weekends away from the office, and don't--like whatever it is, just by sharing that you're protecting yourself and by being honest, you don't need to put everything on, that’s not what I'm saying. I'm just saying if you have that humans-first armor by being forthcoming about who you are and a little bit about what you're up to, then if the bizarro-world-doppelganger-Karen comes and does this same thing, then instead of people saying, “Oh, that's cool. That's my doctor. I'm glad he's having fun!” That's when it becomes a straight-up pylon.
JEFFRIES: Yeah.
JONES: And that's what I don't want for this field. That's not good for anybody.
JEFFRIES: No, I totally, totally agree. And I think that, I mean if you ask a fertility doctor what their worst day at work was, I would probably bet they can't give you one. You know?I mean, if you have a doctor who’s been in the field for, let's say 20 years, they probably have over a hundred horrific days, and not just horrific because of their schedule or because they didn’t get their lunch brought in. Like human tragedy, actual tragic things that happened that they had to deal with again and again and again, that's hard. I think patients have a hard time really seeing that because perspective is very difficult when you're going through infertility because you’re just so hyper-focused on yourself and your reproductive organs and what you're eating and you feel like you're a science experiment. Like I know, that's what I kept saying, like I'm a science experiment, they just don't know what's happening. It’s like when you’re in middle school and there’s a control and then there’s the variables and you just have to figure it out. And that’s how you feel. You feel like a science experiment. But I think that what’s important is understanding that the doctors have also a really, really hard job. And they’re allowed to go out with their friends and do that stuff because they probably have had so many more tragic days than you have. Even if your tragedy is tragedy, they’ve had that how many times? Dozens. And putting that into perspective, which is hard as a patient. I’m not gonna like. It’s really hard to be like, ok, doc, I’m not going to take this out on you because you’re giving me the bad news. Or okay nurse on the phone, I'm not going to take this out on you because you're giving me the bad news. Like, I know this is hard for you to deliver this news to me as well. And I'm going to try to control myself and maybe I'll just go eat my weight in Mexican tonight or whatever! It’s not their fault that you’re going through this. They are trying to help you.
JONES :That is a very well-balanced perspective to have between both sides of the community You could be an account manager at Fertility Bridge! Before we wrap up, are you comfortable talking about what your relationship was like with your clinic when you were going to treatment and what it's like now if there is still a relationship? Are you comfortable talking about that?
JEFFRIES: Yes. Absolutely. I went to NYU Fertility Clinic in New York City and I felt like I had such great care there. I remember when I first--so what happened was my husband and I were trying to get pregnant for probably about 6 months and we were having unprotected sex, I wasn't getting my period, but I also was getting all these negative pregnancy tests. And I had no idea what was happening, because I was like, when I went to sex ed in middle school like, you had unprotected sex and you don’t get your period, that means your pregnant, right? So I was like, what is happening? It was really weird, because for 6 months, I just thought I was pregnant every single month. And so my OB/GYN started me on a round of Clomid, nothing happened. Another round of Clomid, nothing happened. And she left me a voicemail, on a Friday at like 4:45, and she was like, “I’m pretty positive you have PCOS,” and she said that on the voicemail, which this wasn’t at NYU, this was a different doctor. And I was like, I don’t think you can leave messages like that, I mean, that’s violating HIPPA rules, right? And she was like, “I think you have PCOS and I want you to go to NYU Fertility and it’s Friday afternoon at 4:45 and I’m out of the office” was basically her thing. And I was like--so I Googled it, obviously. This was back in 2011. And I was like, *yells* I was a disaster. I almost threw my laptop across the room. Like the only thing I could see was infertile, infertility, not able to have babies, can’t get pregnant, and I was like, I had devoted my life to children, I’m a school teacher, at the time I was teaching 1st grade. Like I was completely floored. So I called the fertility clinic, I don't know probably like 75 times on that Monday. I got an appointment for early--this was right around Christmas, too--I got a great for early January and when I met with my doctor he confirmed that I had PCOS through an ultrasound. He was like, “I could confirm it with blood, too, but I don’t need to. It’s very obviously you have PCOS.” And he was very positive. He said, you know, “I'm not going to make any promises. However, I’ve treated a lot of women with PCOS and we can definitely--I'm pretty positive you will be able to get pregnant.” And he explained to me that I have a lot of eggs, but it’s actually a good thing and a bad thing. So, he was very positive and he definitely calmed me down a little bit, I mean, I was still going absolutely insane, like absolutely insane in my head, but he did calm me down a little bit. He gave me my options and they were just great. I had one IUI with them and it failed. I remember, I drank like a bottle of wine that night and then the next morning, I was like I happened to be leafing through a People magazine and I found out that Snooki was pregnant and I was like, God! And this was before Snooki was like the rebranded mom Snooki, like she was still the trainwreck Snooki. And I was like, are you kidding me right now?! The next month, I had another IUI and it actually it worked! And they monitored me pretty closely and then I graduated. So the first round with them was pretty quick, actually. When I went back to have my second daughter, I went straight back to them. There's no point for my husband and I to try on our own. They said that to me and I completely agreed. And so we started with multiple IUIs. I did 4 IUIs, but 5 months of Clomid because the first month, nothing happened, we needed a step up. And by my 4th IUI, I decided, and my husband supported me, to go forward with IVF. And what I’ve learned since doing my IVF cycle with NYU is that my numbers were very unusual, like on the high end. I had 33 eggs that turned into 17 day 5 blastocysts. Which is a lot. And I didn't know that. One of the things that I joke about is Google existed. I didn’t Google, because I didn’t want to Google too much. Leggings also existed, and I had gained so much weight through the Clomid, but I didn’t know about leggings either at this point, so I was just trying to fit into my regular clothes! But they were great. We put in one blast, and less than a week later, I knew I was pregnant, but it was confirmed at the right time. But I thought that my clinic was amazing. They always called, they were so nice on the phone, every failed cycle, they were like, “Hey, Karen…” They were really understanding. I thought they were very efficient. I didn’t always see my doctor, because in the morning cycles, you see whatever doctors are on. There would be months and months that I wouldn't be in contact with my doctor, but I always knew that he was there. He was kind of like big brother, you know? At least that’s what I felt, that was the impression I got, whether that actually was the case, I truly don't know, but I always kind of in my mind had this idea of they see all the results like around lunchtime, and they make their decisions, and then everyone else calls. And now I don't know if that’s actually how it works or not, but I always thought that I was under his care even though I wasn't speaking to him directly. But yeah, and then when I wrote this book, I talked about like the fertility clinic rules and and the morning ultrasound and the lube and all that stuff! And I wasn’t in contact with them when I wrote the book, and I changed his name in the book to the name of the pizza place down the street from me in anonymity. I didn't know if he would approve or not, and then after I wrote it, after it was published, I sent a copy to him. ANd he was like, h”Oh my goodness. This is amazing. Why did you change his name?” And I was like, “Well, I just didn't know at the time, you know? And he called me right after he got the book and was like, “There had to have been something bad at the clinic.” Like there was nothing bad that happened at my clinic. It was all great!
JONES: This is Dr. Big Cheese Lorenzetti!
JEFFRIES: Right? He was like, “There had to be something that wasn’t good. You were so nice about NYU.” It was amazing. I was like, “There was one-time where another woman cut me in line and I, in my head, went totally Incredible Hulk on her.” It was like right in the beginning of my IVF cycle. But I was like, “But you can’t control a patient cutting someone else. That’s not your fault!” But he was like “Wow! It was really nice.” No, they’ve been amazing. Right now, him and I we are in contact, I’m not so much in contact with the clinic. But he helped me sometimes if I need a reference--not a reference--but if I need to contact someone. I’m doing a show in Boston, so I’m like, do you know anyone in Boston that I can talk to and maybe they could tell their patients about this show and stuff like that. That’s truly the only connection I have with him now. They were a great clinic and I would highly recommend them.
JONES: Karen, how would you want to conclude with how clinics can best communicate with the patients to share the well-rounded perspective that you see?
JEFFRIES: That’s a great question. I think a lot of patients are looking for more like--treating the whole patient. So clinics that offer health and wellness; clinics that offer nutritionist that are specifically based to infertility; clinics that offer yoga for infertility; or acupuncture for infertility. Things like that that can really help balance out a patient. Clinics that offer support groups or online support groups, however it is. Whether it's their own support group, or they say check out this account, not necessarily Hilariously Infertile, but like you said, a list of different resources that you can have. I think that the main thing for patients is that they want to feel like they're not alone. And they want to feel like, that everything that is going on with them is normal and they don't feel like that. They feel like they're on an island, isolated, and they feel like nothing happening is normal. They feel--sometimes they don't feel like-- they feel less of a woman or less of a man or whatever it is, and it affects them. And I think that looking at the whole patient is really important. And also another thing that I really love, I wrote an article about (I forget for where), but IVF and infertility doesn’t happen in a vacuum, right? So if you're going through infertility or IVF, if all you had to do was go from your house to the clinic and home and do nothing else, it would so we really, really hard. But like you're adding commuting, you’re adding bills, you’re adding full-time jobs, maybe multiple full-time jobs, maybe secondary infertility, or adding children at home, you’re a marriage relationship that could be causing issues there, you’re adding financial burden. There are so many added pieces that really, really weigh on people who are going through infertility. I remember one time, I took the last tissue out of a tissue box and I *yells*! It was like the littlest, teeniest, tiniest thing, I was like, I can’t handle life! You feel like everything is working against you. I remember once hitting every single red light and almost being late for work and rushing in and being like, it honestly feels like it's me against the entire world. And so, I think that understanding that and tryin-- you can't take away all those other elements--but trying to make it a little bit smoother for the patients and being like, “Listen, we understand what you are going through. You have this whole litany of things to do for your infertility doctor and for your clinic that you need to do, and you have your regular life, which is the main in 2018.” It's stressful, you know? So I think I understanding those things are really important, for clinics and practitioners.
JONES: Karen, thank you for your humanity and thank you for coming on Inside Reproductive Health.
JEFFRIES: Thank you so much for having me.
You’ve been listening to the Inside Reproductive Health Podcast with Griffin Jones. If you're ready to take action to make sure that your practice drives beyond the revolutionary changes that are happening in our field and in society, visit fertiltybridge.com to begin the first piece of the Fertility Marketing System, the Goal and Competitive Diagnostic. Thank you for listening to Inside Reproductive Health.