This week on Inside Reproductive Health, Elizabeth Carr shares her experience from birth to where she is today, at TMRW, and everywhere in between. Born quite literally into the industry and its spotlight, Elizabeth has chosen to be an advocate for IVF, working to change public education, and further ‘industry’ advancements.
Tune in to hear:
What Elizabeth Carr is doing to give back to the community that made her existence possible.
How her relationship with Dr. Jones and his family contributed to her life and ultimate career path.
What she wishes people in the industry would push harder for.
Elizabeth’s information:
LinkedIn:https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethc
Twitter: @ejordancarr
Website: www.ejordancarr.com
Transcript
Elizabeth Carr 00:04
My speaking up and out has always been kind of my love letter to the industry as a thank you and to all the patients. As a thank you for saying thanks for not giving up and making sure that I got here.
Griffin Jones 00:17
unlimited human potential Do you ever think about the line of work that you're in, in those terms, unlimited human potential. That's what I think about when I think about the in finite or at least in depth finite number of IVF babies that can be born or babies born from art in general, my guest is Elizabeth Carr, you know who she is because she was the first baby born from in vitro fertilization in the United States, through Dr. Howard Jones and his Institute. And we talk about what that was like to always be in the limelight. But I think the reason why you'll get an interest in or you'll take an interest in this episode is because partly the relationship that she talks about with her family and Dr. Jones and, and then what the other IVF babies that she knows from the institute, what their relationship was like, and their fondness and even the way she thinks of Dr. Jones's colleagues, and that weren't there at the institute, but But everywhere. And so I think as you think about what kind of legacy that you're having, maybe we take a little break from the private equity and the hiring and the marketing and the business development and all of the this stuff, the important stuff that we do have to do we take a break for a second, so that you all can reflect on the legacy that you're leaving from someone who had one is very good about speaking about it, but to at least in this country, has been living it for the longest. So now she's with TMRW Life Sciences. And I get to talk a little bit about that, and a little bit about advocacy and an opening up. But think about this episode with regard to your legacy. And enjoy this interview with Elizabeth Carr. Ms. Carr. Elizabeth, welcome to Inside reproductive health.
Elizabeth Carr 02:23
Thank you so much for having me. It's great to be here.
Griffin Jones 02:26
You are the United States of America's first baby to be born through in vitro fertilization. So does Louise Brown, like ever? Just Does she ever throw some nationalistic crap at you that the UK beat us to it? Or does the stet you know, does that Steptoe Jones legacy does it? Does it manifest itself as a rivalry decades later, or was it the whole world collaborating to? To try to do the right thing?
Elizabeth Carr 02:57
Yeah, no, no shade, definitely no shade from Louise. And yeah, my doctors Jones actually worked with Steptoe and Edwards to kind of understand what they had success with, and then tried to replicate. In the US, of course, my distinction versus Louise, where maybe I'm throwing a little shade is that I'm really the first IVF baby, that, you know, when we think of modern IVF, I'm it so Louise was a natural cycle, whereas I was the first baby born using all of the, like, hormone protocols that we're also familiar with now.
Griffin Jones 03:35
Wow. So well, that's another reason why whenever somebody says, and normally there's playing around, but our country did this first or our team, our university, whatever did this versus like, but yeah, they did that one step first. And then because you did that one step and you help somebody out, they figured out another step. And then the other guys and gals over here figured out another step and as much better to think collegially Exactly. So. So when did that start to become a part of your life? Because it was always a part of your parents life, but But for you, it definitely wasn't, you know, in the first couple years of your life, in terms of like you knowing that, you know, at least age two and three
Elizabeth Carr 04:25
you Well, I mean, yes and no. So I let me put it this way. My first press conference ever was at three days old. So while I may not have had the cognitive realization of what was going on, I have always known that I was not like all of my other peers, you know, other kindergarteners weren't going on Good Morning America, but I was, you know, think things like that. So I may not have realized until I was older. What this meant: But, but I knew that my parents went through something different in order to get me here. That was kind of like my understanding when I was very young.
Griffin Jones 05:10
My assumption was no, it would have taken a few years before some of the to be able to explain it to you. But you were just never out of the limelight is what you're saying.
Elizabeth Carr 05:19
Correct? No. I mean, it was a media firestorm from the day that it was announced that there was a pregnancy even before I was born, just even a pregnancy there and woman impregnated was the headline that my father recalls reading. And he was like, yep, that's my wife. So yeah, it's always been a subject of media spotlight and scrutiny.
Griffin Jones 05:45
And so how long did that last for? You said you went to? You went to kindergarten, and then
Elizabeth Carr 05:54
I made its last my whole life. Yeah, it still happens. It's lasted my whole life. Basically, every reproductive milestone, somebody will want to talk to me about what this means, or you want to check in and make sure I was developmentally just like everybody else, because this was, you know, had never posted, by the way. Yeah, I mean, you know, mostly abnormal, I
Griffin Jones 06:19
think, crazy as everybody else.
Elizabeth Carr 06:22
Exactly. I don't think there's any real normal out there. But yeah, so I mean, it's been a constant. limelight. I mean, I had a camera crew here last week at my house, and I'm, you know, I'm just living my life. So
Griffin Jones 06:37
were there. Were there points in your life where people were less aware the media was less interested, like, oh, 13 year olds are gross. Let's bother again, when she's old enough to vote? Like, Were there ever lows in? Were there? And, or maybe at least lows compared to the peaks?
Elizabeth Carr 06:58
Yeah, I think, yeah, the ages that were less exciting, right. So like, nine was not a big deal. But 10 was a huge deal. Because it had been a decade since I had been born. You know, when I turned 16, it was like sweet 16. Right? When I turned 20, when I got married, when I had my son, when, you know, it's like, all of these kinds of life milestones that people go through. Mine had an additional level of media interest that I don't think many people realize until we start talking about it.
Griffin Jones 07:29
Hey, are you gunning for centenarian status? triple digits, because
Elizabeth Carr 07:35
I know that the running joke is, you know, this year, I turned 40. And I was like, you know, I can't lie about my age. Everybody knows when my birthday is exactly how old I am forever. Never. That's, you know, that's what I'm stuck with. So yeah, it's, it's crazy.
Griffin Jones 07:52
So when did this notoriety start to get you involved with the fertility field, like the fertility field had always known about you? The doctors knew who you were, and they certainly knew our Jones was. But at what point? Did it start to get you involved with them?
Elizabeth Carr 08:22
Yeah, so I mean, aside from the media attention, and all the interviews that I've had, over the course of my life growing up, I, I've always had an interest in science, I'm not good at math. But I've always liked to explain the science. So I've always, and I always, I think I was probably 10, when I started really paying attention to the industry and seeing what was going on and developing. So I've always paid attention to the reproductive field. But I also started realizing that because I had this weird platform in life, that I could use my voice for good and for change. And so I've really, from a pretty young age, started speaking up about different reproductive options out there, and became kind of like a junior advocate, you know, Junior age, probably 1011, I really started paying attention to what was going on with insurance. And I'm still actively fighting those insurance battles and testifying in front of various committees and on state by state basis and paying attention to all the laws and, you know, looking into just helping people understand their options. So I started really paying attention to that stuff, probably when I was 10. And then I went on to be a journalist and wrote, not surprising to many I don't think primarily about health and science and again, stayed up on everything going on. And then I've worked for a few fertility startups and done a bunch of free then to writing and social media for various companies. And now I'm at TMRW Life Sciences as director of marketing.
Griffin Jones 10:07
So you started off as a journalist, were you ever kind of covering just a regular beat? Or was it always Health and Science?
Elizabeth Carr 10:16
Yeah, so I did a range of things. When that you, when I started out, I worked from age 18, at the Boston Globe. And I actually started out as an obituary writer, because you can't label a dead person, believe it or not, so they let you start there. And then I did a lot of general assignment. And then I went into health and wellness was a writer, then I became a health and wellness editor. And so I've done you name that you name it, it runs the gamut in terms of journalism,
Griffin Jones 10:47
what made the switch or the transition from journalism to marketing.
Elizabeth Carr 10:53
So I spent 15 years of my career at the Boston Globe. And I actually jumped from the editorial side of the business to the marketing side of the business, because I wanted to learn, you know, the dirty little secret of newspapers is that you don't make money selling a newspaper, you make it doing events, and marketing, and in house advertising, and all these other kinds of modalities that a newspaper has available to them. So I just wanted to learn soup to nuts, the business. And so that's why I jumped to the marketing side. And then I figured out that, you know, this was an important skill in the fertility world for, you know, anyone looking to grow their practice or understand the business of infertility services or reproductive technologies as well. And, you know, it's hard, it's, it's complicated, right? If you don't understand the reproductive field, it's hard to translate it into plain English for people sometimes. And I that's, that's a skill that I wanted to learn and adopt very early, that I wanted to be able to explain something very complex in a way that people could understand it.
Griffin Jones 12:05
So what areas of marketing did you experience both at the Boston Globe and then afterward?
Elizabeth Carr 12:12
So I was one of the first digital reporters, you know, back before anybody knew what a blogger was, I was blogging, doing social media, tweeting, you know, doing kind of the early days of podcasting, where, you know, we did audio over stills, it wasn't really movies back then. But audio over stills kind of storytelling. You know, things like that, basically anything I could get my hands on and play around with I was experimenting with.
Griffin Jones 12:46
And then and then what happens after the Boston Globe.
Elizabeth Carr 12:51
Let me see, after the Boston Globe, I actually went to work for Runner's World Magazine, I was an editor there because in my free time, I am an endurance runner, and I run marathons. And so again, kind of still in that health and wellness bent, was a was a writer and editor there. Then I went to work for over science for a very short period of time, I then I worked for genomic prediction, I've done nonprofit fundraising, and leads kind of all the way up to today, TMRW.
Griffin Jones 13:27
All the while that you're doing like that you're at the globe that you're Runner's World. Are you? Are you involved in the advocacy? You said? Yeah, surance passion never left you. So what were you doing during that time?
Elizabeth Carr 13:42
Yeah. So it's all the stuff that nobody sees, right? It's all the stuff behind the scenes that we all know, hopefully we all know is going on, of, you know, fighting to get insurance mandates in various states where there aren't mandates and coverage, as well as making sure that bills that are being proposed have language that is protective of all, not just some seeking reproductive options. So all of the nitty gritty stuff that's behind the scenes that nobody really, you know, it's not visible, but it's critical work. So I've kind of always been doing that, since I was very young. It's just not something that people see.
Griffin Jones 14:23
So then how did you when did the logical or now seemingly logical conclusion of starting to work with startups in the IVF space? When did that happen? And how did it happen?
Elizabeth Carr 14:38
Probably. I don't I'm trying to think how many years ago probably 10 years ago, I think is when I started. Sorry, my dog is drinking water loudly off camera. Miracle. Thank you. So probably about 10 years ago, is when I started working in the infertility slash startup space in a in a professional capacity as opposed to just in a patient advocacy capacity? And how did it happen? You know, I'm not really sure I've just always kind of known a lot of people in the space. And I happen to have this like weird digital tool set to or skill set in my tool belt of various things I was good at. And I understood the needs of patients as well as the needs of clinics or providers as well. And so it was kind of marrying all of these various skills from journalism, marketing, patient advocacy, kind of all into one. You know, one multi tool, I guess you would call it,
Griffin Jones 15:47
as you've established, we all know how old you are. This took place about 30. Why not? Until then was was it? Was it just because you were just another person doing other things in your career? Or was it because there weren't as many startups in the fertility space at that? I think,
Elizabeth Carr 16:05
yeah, I think it was both to be honest with you, I think I was just kind of still, I felt like I still had a lot of growth to go at when i i left the globe, and I was 33. So I still kind of had this mini city of people to learn from and that was, I was really grateful that I spent a majority of my career there because I have learned so many different skills from so many different people. And then yeah, I think also, yes, we have seen more and more fertility startups survive those early days, to be honest with you. I think it's there's there's many, many out there, but not many of them become known until after they survived that first few bumpy like six months to a year. Right. And so that's kind of when I feel like people rise to bubble up to the surface.
Griffin Jones 17:02
What was it? What were people working on at that time that you found interesting in the fertility space?
Elizabeth Carr 17:09
I mean, back then, you know, it was a lot of the early days of pre Implantation Genetic testing, which is fascinating to me, because it was not even in the realm of possibility. And when I was born, I mean, this is really dating me, but they had a statement written, or my doctors had a statement written in their pocket about how it was a sad day for infertility that they had on backup, just because ultrasound was showing that I was really, really small and they were worried I was going to come out with birth defects because I was only five pounds 12 ounces. And ultrasound was so bad back then. Right. So people forget that, like the things that we take for granted now. vitrification I remember when vitrification became possible, and that was like, the catalyst and game changer in the field. You know, egg freezing was I remember being probably my late teens and touring a facility that had done the first egg freezing for fertility preservation for cancer patients, because that was it was very niche back then. And it was like groundbreaking that they figured out that, you know, we can freeze eggs and and they can still go on to become viable pregnancies. People didn't know that that was possible. So it's kind of like all of these milestone moments that I remember growing up with industry really in, in my view.
Griffin Jones 18:37
And then what, what landed you TMRW, and how long have you been there for?
Elizabeth Carr 18:44
So I'm trying to think I think I've been here six months now. I saw TMW at ASRM, actually. And I just thought, wow, this is the kind of safety and transparency that I hear from a daily basis that patients really are kind of clamoring for that they want, you know, they want more information. I know that we we all think it can be information overload because it can be right we didn't my my mother always jokes that she was kind of grateful that there was no Dr. Google back then when she was going through IVF. Because it is so overwhelming the amount of options and information out there. But I hear from people you know, I really wish there was a way I could just stay up to date on all of my eggs, embryos, health information, everything I needed to know and not wonder where things are or what the status of them is, in in the moment really, to know that everything is safe and I've worked so hard to you know, get these eggs or embryos that I want to protect them at all costs. And I think that you know, TMRW unique digital chain of custody and patented technology is just It's just, you know, so interesting in kind of leveling up that transparency and peace of mind for patients.
Griffin Jones 20:08
I don't know exactly when a startup becomes not a startup is.
Elizabeth Carr 20:13
I don't either.
Griffin Jones 20:16
Do we still call TMRW a startup?
Elizabeth Carr 20:18
I mean, I don't know. That's a very good question.
Griffin Jones 20:22
A lot of money, a lot of people.
Elizabeth Carr 20:25
We're all working very hard roster
Griffin Jones 20:27
at this point. So yeah. So in your director of marketing,
Elizabeth Carr 20:34
that's your director of product and clinic marketing,
Griffin Jones 20:37
clinic market? So do they pull you out like a dog and pony show? Yours? Which is, which is partly the role of marketing director anyway. But given your status, how was that used?
Elizabeth Carr 20:55
No, I mean, it's really kind of, I'm always the one saying like, Oh, I know them, or or, you know, like, let me I want to help or, you know, I'm really the one who kind of said, I want to help move the needle in whatever way I can for the industry. That is kind of my that is my, like, personal stake in the ground aside from TMRW, or any other company I've ever worked with? It's really how can I personally move the needle? For the better in the industry at for patients? That is, that is my end game. And so everything I do is kind of with that mindset, you know, moving forward? And no, it's really my job to kind of, again, translate all of the complex things about the about this technology that we have, and explain it to people in a way that makes sense. And let people know, you know, why it matters.
Griffin Jones 21:50
So our director of clinic and Product Marketing means of what TMRW is marketing to clinics, yeah, helping
Elizabeth Carr 21:59
helping clinics so that they can level up their practices in terms of having our cutting edge technology at their practice. And then as well as explaining the product itself, like soup to nuts, nuts and bolts in a very, you know, non technical way to understand.
Griffin Jones 22:16
So what are you doing to, to talk to practices now?
Elizabeth Carr 22:22
Yeah, so essentially, you know, my job now is to interface with all of our current partners, and help them explain to their patients, you know, this is the TMRW platform, this is why we're using it, this is what it means, you know, that kind of stuff. So I help them explain to their own patient populations, why this is important, and it matters as well. And then again, explaining the product to the clinic so that the clinic can then explain the product to their patients as well.
Griffin Jones 22:49
We're talking about lessons learned in owning a practice or owning a business in the fertility field and things that you may want to learn how to do or learn about before you go and start your own venture. Another thing is some of the systems that are used, and oh, people that can give really good recommendations on the different EMRs. They've shopped in the depth and scope of functions. But I would ask someone that you know, that uses engaged MD, if you're not already, if you don't use engage MD, and you're CISM, you're thinking I want to open my own office within my own group, or I want to open my own practice, I want to go join somebody else, and I want to be able to add something to it, engage them D is one of the surest bets that you can do, but you don't take my word for it. Ask someone that you know, because more than half of your colleagues are using engaged MD and more than half of your colleagues are extremely delighted with engaged and be because they got real informed consent. They don't have stacks of papers that people have to sign in then account for and then keep an eye out file cabinet somewhere. They have true informed consent from patients that have a module at their convenience, so that the staff isn't overburdened with questions that they don't need to be getting that they can help the patient with the attention that needs to be devoted to that patient's case. Because the elementary the rudimentary is covered, and now it's just what that patient is stuck on or what's unique to their case that the care team can focus their care on. That's what personalized care is. And more than half of your colleagues have seen the benefit from engaged MD that way so just reach out to any of them Hey, guys do use engage in the people you want to fellowship with people that you see it ASRM Hey, do you use engage them D What do you think I hear Griff talk about it. But he doesn't want to practice. What do you guys think? And see what they say but if you want At every workflow assessment want to see what other practices are doing, you want those insights that engage them D has, and you want to see how your practice stacks against that ideal workflow, then you go to engage them. the.com/griffin. And you mentioned that you heard them on the show, you mentioned that you heard them from me, and then you're gonna get that free workflow assessment. So ask somebody else, don't take my word for it, but go to engage md.com/griffin Or say you're on the show. So you heard from me, so that you can get that free work assessment for you. That's one of the biggest system wins that you could have right off the bat. And you can verify that just by asking people you already know, I hope you enjoy the rest of this episode about things you need to know for the fertility business you might start. When you're at SRM, especially like if you're either talking or you're involved with a session, or somebody invites you to be the guest. They're the guest of honor at their party, and you meet fertility doctors, what do they say to you?
Elizabeth Carr 26:05
Oh, it runs the gamut.
Griffin Jones 26:08
I want to hear the game I want to hear all the time, I want to hear
Elizabeth Carr 26:12
all of the games. I mean, I've heard everything from the very young embryologist who are like you're in all my textbooks, which makes me feel really old and weird, but in a good way. versus you know, some of the older physicians who remember by doctors, Dr. Howard and Dr. Georgiana Jones, and comparing notes to like, what it was like back then versus what it's like now. I've had people ask me really odd questions such as, Do I have a belly button? Spoiler? Yes, I do. I was born just like everybody else.
Griffin Jones 26:48
Doctors are asking that question. And doctors and patients have asked
Elizabeth Carr 26:51
me that question. I kid you not which it's always shocking when a clinician asks me that question. Mostly OBGYN so I have to be honest.
Griffin Jones 27:02
I wonder if there's what the reason that they're asking that question because
Elizabeth Carr 27:05
there's because in the early days of IVF, the slang term was test tube baby, right. And so the, the image in everybody's head was that I was grown in a test tube, which is just wildly inaccurate. Also, fertilization happened in a petri dish. And there were no test tubes involved in any way, shape, or form. So I always found that very amusing. And I've always hated that nickname.
Griffin Jones 27:30
But I thought there might have been like, but they didn't know that you that you went through gestation in utero, they didn't know that. They are a lot of people. A lot of people vitro fertilization also means grown
Elizabeth Carr 27:43
in a lab, like literally. Yeah. And I have to, I often have to remind people that that, honestly, the only difference was that fertilization happened in in a petri dish. And then I was placed back in my mother's womb. And nine months later, I came out just like everybody else does.
Griffin Jones 28:01
I mean, a lot of people think that, you know, like, Alaska is a country or that. Queen Elizabeth lives in Brazil. So like, it could, it could be, you know, I could see a lot of people thinking anything about that. But it surprise surprises me that OBGYN ins have
Elizabeth Carr 28:23
not awesome just to fit. You know, I'm just not I'm not saying everybody. But yeah, I mean, it's I think that's the one thing that surprises me still to this day, is that I have to do so much still basic education on what IVF? You know, I only primarily speak about IVF, because it's what what got me here, so I know it intimately well. But in terms of education on what exactly IVF is, there's still a lot of baseline education that needs to happen on a on a general level for a lot of people, many people have maybe heard about it, and think they understand what it is. But a lot of people there are still misconceptions about it. Yeah.
Griffin Jones 29:05
Unfortunately, it doesn't happen to me as much now that that generation is mostly gone. But I used to meet people that that knew my grandparents, I would meet older people that knew my grandparents, and they would talk about how they, how they knew my grandpa's. I guess that happens with my parents generation, too. But I guess I know more about my parents generation. So I'm just Yeah, a couple years ago, my brother and I were at a neighborhood bar in the neighborhood that were for the working class outside of Buffalo neighborhood for generation two, and we're at a neighborhood bar where like, all of the Irish working class stereotypes are coming together like our second cousin is our attending that we don't know that was oh, yeah, I know. And then there's this older couple there and that oh, and I know who your who your family where they were the Burns is and they were like telling me about my grant. parents and their family and great grandparents. I wonder, do you ever get that vibe from from older physicians like, who were maybe just behind the Steptoe Jones generation? And, like, do they want to tell you about Dr. Jones or duck, maybe even Dr. Steptoe, even though he wasn't in this country, like do they want to tell you about them in the same way that your grandparents friends would want to tell you about your grandparents?
Elizabeth Carr 30:33
Absolutely. And the grandparent analogy actually is a very good one, because that's how I've always referred to the Jones is my second set of grandparents. Our relationship for my whole life until they died was very, very close. Phone calls, emails, writing all sorts of correspondence. When I had my son, Dr. Howard wanted to make sure that I was going to a hospital with a level two NICU just in case, you know, all these kinds of things. So, yeah, people definitely want to share their stories with me of Oh, I was a fellow I was a Jones fellow or I went through the program, or, you know, I learned from so and so who was on the original team, or, you know, all those kinds of things, I actually really appreciate when people share those stories with me, because, you know, those were, those were kind of the Wild West days back then. Right? They were trying to figure out what was going to work, I don't think people realize that my parents you know, they didn't realize they were going to be the first until my mother got pregnant. And then the Jones were like, by the way, you're the first. And my parents, I think, naively assumed that there had been success, like it didn't dawn on them that there wasn't success. beforehand. And they weren't the only couple going through this. There were a group of other people going through this process at the same time, my parents were, but all the couples had a different protocol. And so none of the couples knew like, are we going to be the ones that the protocol works? Or is it going to be somebody else? And they weren't really allowed to share notes or talk about, you know, how their protocols were different. So it was kind of like, you'd pass in the hallway and wave and but you didn't know like, are they? Are they pregnant? Are we pregnant? What's going on? So yeah, it as I said, it was a wild west. So it's always interesting to hear those stories from from the very early group.
Griffin Jones 32:33
And so Dr. Jones passed away, like when I got into the fertility business, I started working with that, our first fertility client in 2014, but moved back to the US in June of 2015. And he passed away that summer. And how much correspondence did you have with Dr. Jones throughout your life?
Elizabeth Carr 33:00
Oh, as I said, so much correspondence. I mean, when I was little, we had a Mother's Day reunion every year at the Jones Institute in Norfolk, for the first 100 Babies essentially. And when it got to be 1000, and 1001 babies, that was our last reunion, because it just got to be too many people. And that was just from the one, you know, clinic. So throughout my life, you know, he would come to the airport and pick us up, or he would you know, I've got Birthday, birthday cards and phone calls every Christmas and on my birthday from them. I when I interned as a writer at The Virginian pilot newspaper, Dr. Howard actually helped me figure out my housing and I stayed with one of his fellows. And he and I had a standing lunch date every Wednesday. Well, I was there for the entire summer. He was one of the first people I told when I was pregnant with my son. He was invited to my wedding, you know, they were invited to my wedding. You know, anytime I had a newspaper article that made the front page or something like that, he would send me a note. So if people I think don't realize that we had such a close relationship, and they really were like a second set of grandparents, as I said,
Griffin Jones 34:23
so I just had a client asked me today, they were like, because we're doing a photo shoot for them. And we have a part of that where we we have just like an open period where people can come in and they can take their pick, they can bring their kids and they can take a picture and and they asked me what's the age limit because we just had someone in their early 20s who reached out to Dr. Toe and toe and said that they're now beginning medical school and as like there's no age like Yeah, that's great. That's incredible lady Yeah, like, that's it's not just a cute chubby cheeks that that is the whole story like, and you could argue that that's like, that's the story like, you know this, more broadly speaking this unlimited human potential you don't know what the human potential is, but we know that it wouldn't have existed if not for. Right. And so you like you were a part of of of that growing up. So I want to ask this question that has to do with the infertility community. If you think it's personal to me, I'll edit it out. I think it's, I think it's germane to the conversation. So sure. Did you go through infertility treatment
Elizabeth Carr 35:44
for everybody asks me that, no. So that was the other the other interesting thing about my mother's fertility journey to have me, she actually didn't have traditional infertility. She like where it was unexplained, or, you know, something was going on like that. It was scar tissue from a botched appendix surgery when she was in her teens. And she actually had three ectopic pregnancies before having me and so her fallopian tubes were removed, which, then that's where her fertility issues really came in. Because you, you know, back then you couldn't have a child unless you had fallopian tubes. So ironically, my mother could get could always get pregnant, she couldn't stay pregnant, the reason she couldn't stay pregnant was because of that scar tissue. So she was kind of the ideal candidate for this IVF program. And then No, I had no fertility issues at all. And I had my son at the same age actually, that my mother had me I was 28 when I had my son.
Griffin Jones 36:46
The reason why I asked is because I wonder what that's like the fertility community is such a tribe in many, in many cases, partly because they have at least some, some similar roots to draw upon. Like, even though the journeys are different, there's, there's some common threads, and sometimes those common threads are so distinct from the rest of society, that's where they form their bond. And, and you don't have that with them, you have a different kind of bond with them. It's like it's, it's as though they're, it's like their kids, you know, the the ones that have gone through treatment and been successful, are gone through time. Fast forward to be a grown up and now are with them in that community. So what what is that like, like to be to be not one of them at all, in one sense, and to them? And to be like, the most proud I know, there's so yeah, right, and product and and others? What's that? Like?
Elizabeth Carr 37:49
Yeah, so I mean, that's where, to me, I've always been very cognizant of that. There's like, I cannot speak to what it is like to exactly experience infertile infertility or trouble with your family building, right? I'm very aware of that. So I never speak to what that is like, what I can say is I can relate to what my, my parents went through, in their very unique situation. And that is where it has become my goal, that I am very humbled and privileged to be here. And I realized that I am very humbled and privileged to be here. And so my work as a patient advocate, or, as somebody who can be a resource or connector for somebody else going through this, my goal has always been for people to know what their options are before they need them. Because my parents really, you know, we're kind of given this option in a moment of crisis of like, Oh, my God, what do we do we have, we can have a child of her own, what are we going to do, and I never want anyone to feel like they don't know where to turn. And so my speaking up and out has always been kind of my love letter to the industry as a thank you and to all the patients. As a as a thank you for saying like, Thanks for not giving up and making sure that I got here. Because it took everybody it took all of my parents willpower of fighting. It took all of the scientists and lab technicians and embryologist and nurses, and even receptionists answering the phone and all the billing folks, it took so many people just for me to be here talking to you today. And so that's where I'm going to keep keep using my unique platform and voice to keep moving the needle ahead in this industry. And it's it's just it's it's honestly my only way of saying thank you because the words thank you seem wildly inadequate.
Griffin Jones 39:48
How old were you when you started meeting other adults that well, maybe now I won't even ask the question adults. How often How old were you? You when other people started introducing them to themselves, do you say I'm an IVF? Baby, too?
Elizabeth Carr 40:08
I mean, I think I'm a bad person to ask that question only because I have a magnet right at the end. And, you know, we had those reunions from from when I was very little with a Mother's Day stuff. So, so I always had other IVF babies around me, always. The only difference was, you know, when I was little, we would all introduce ourselves using our numbers. And so, you know, a friend of mine would be like, I'm never 10 and be like, I'm number one. You know, so nice to meet you. Where's number five? We don't know, like. So but then, you know, to have friends of mine. Now my age saying, Oh, I'm going through IVF or I'm having an IVF. Baby, myself. And they often say thank you. And I'm like, you know, I appreciate that sentiment so much. But like, honestly, I my, my joke is that I didn't really do anything I just showed up. It was really everybody else did the hard work, you know, I had no control. And whether I was here or not, it was everybody else.
Griffin Jones 41:06
Because you've got this passion, because you got this unique perspective. Are you ever asked to? Or do you take it upon yourself to be a public relations force when something bad happens, like when there is the the rare tank leak or embryo mix up? Or some sociopath in some, like OB GYN clinic from 30 years ago that fathers, how many embryos like when that stuff happens, and people are looking at the fertility field? Like, wait, what like, is that witchcraft? What's going on over there? And we know how rare that is, we know how much of a sliver it is to, in comparison to the good in the hundreds of 1000s of lives now over a million IVF babies that have been born from the treatment. But like, do you see yourself in in a unique position? Like do you feel an obligation to to be a counter voice when that stuff starts to get a larger share of voice in the public sphere?
Elizabeth Carr 42:23
I mean, yes and no. So obviously, especially with with my role TMRW, we're always trying to move the needle ahead for safety and you know, best practices and upping the standard of care, right? And so on, on that kind of mission level, I'm always saying like, this is why this technology is so desperately needed, so that in the rare circumstance or whatever that it happens, this is this is not a possibility, or the risk is mitigated to, you know, such a degree. On the other hand, I also know, because I grew up in this industry, how deeply IVF clinicians and lab techs and embryologist and everybody care about what they're doing. And, you know, I come at it from a very different lens of like, nobody would ever do anything on purpose, right? Like this is, as you said, like, these are catastrophic mix ups that I don't think anybody obviously ever wants to have happen. And so therefore, like, let's come together, link arms, let's talk about best practices, let's make sure that we're all doing everything in our power to make sure that this never happens, right, that this this is, this is the one thing we all collectively have agreed that we want to avoid from happening. So let's figure out how to do that together. And it is not from a place of, you know, fear mongering, it's, you know, we had a practice in place that was the best at the time. Now there's a new option, you know, let's let's go forward with the new option. Because it's new, it's a new standard. And it's just like, you know, kind of same thing with how the industry itself has grown up, right? We used to use certain hormones in the early days of IVF that now we don't really like my mom was on personnel, they don't make personnel anymore. There's now a new version out there. That's the next best, latest, greatest right? So we're always iterating we're always moving the needle. Again, even vitrification wasn't it was a moment in time where they were we were moving the needle, right? We went from fresh transfer to now we know we can vitrify and we can flash free. So what does that mean for moving the needle? And so that's where I always am kind of coming from like, what do we have to do now to move the needle? From an advocacy standpoint, from a safety and technology standpoint? What can we do together?
Griffin Jones 44:53
I'm curious a little bit while we're talking about that, I do want to conclude with you sharing what you think the field should be paying attention to. But I want to ask with regard to the extent that you're able to talk about what, what is TMRW’s vision or potential outside of just the IVF space? Like, I got to believe that this company is, is also going to do other things with this technology. So what's on the horizon?
Elizabeth Carr 45:25
Yeah. So I mean, I'm actually a terrible person to ask. Because I am so ingrained in this in this particular field and this particular dish that I'm like only, like a horse with blinders on that this is our goal right now, this is our mission, this is our drive. I'm, I'm the wrong person to talk about future looking, because at this point, it's we just want everybody to understand what we have going on. Right now. That's in the marketplace for patients and clinics to move forward. But I am excited about where where the potential of this could go. Although I don't necessarily I'm not the person that's necessarily involved in those discussions. But I am excited about yours, knowing about the person perceived benefits of this technology in, you know, potentially other fields. Who knows?
Griffin Jones 46:20
Well, let's talk then about what you think that the field should be paying attention to. And so let's maybe start this conclusion with what do you think that people aren't paying attention to enough of that, that you see, from your vantage point from having worked for all these different startups from our comfort mile from having talked to so many doctors and been involved in the institutional structure? What do you think that people just aren't paying attention to enough of right now?
Elizabeth Carr 46:55
I mean, that is such a hard question. For me, I think it's always the coverage and insurance landscape. We have known for many, many years that, you know, in many ways, reproductive technologies are cost prohibitive for so many people. And that continues to be a really tough nut to crack to make it more accessible to more people, and, and that is something that I know, we're all striving to change, but it's so hard, and it's so slow, that I think that that, you know, in this Roe v Wade overturned landscape, it's really come to the forefront even more, you know, as as a, as a worry that, you know, it will become less accessible, as opposed to more accessible. So I think, for me, personally, that's always one that I'm like, you know, if everybody can really pay attention, not just to the technology and best practices going on in the world, because we know that's going to continue to march forward. But really the landscape itself and, and making sure that everybody has access, and, and that is so key, and I don't think we can ever stop paying attention to it. Truthfully, like, if we take our eyes off that ball for one minute. I think it can be really harmful in the long run.
Griffin Jones 48:32
Well, then I'll let you conclude, however you want to clean our audience of practice owners and Doc's and fertility execs. Maybe it's it's a call for how you'd like them to get involved with that. But how would you like to conclude?
Elizabeth Carr 48:46
Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, for me, it's always, it always comes down to what do we think we need? And how do we think we need to get there. And I grew up in an industry where everything was highly collaborative, right? That was what everybody that talks about the Jones remarks how collegial and academic and collaborative they were, back then, that they, you know, wanted to share the latest and greatest research, they wanted to share best practices. And I think we all still need to kind of especially in this current landscape, continue to link arms and and kind of look around and say like, Yes, I know, we're competing, maybe for customer acquisition and those kinds of things. But let's make sure that we all agree that we want to provide the best care that we can to our ability, period, full stop, and whatever that looks like in the current day, landscape, technology, whatever it is, if we can all say that we're all driving towards the utmost best patient care. That's really all that matters to me. And I think that that's really all that matters to patients as well as they all want to know that we are marching in the same direction, you know, towards the best care and I think wholesale, you know, all of the practitioners that I've come into contact with, you know, embody that, which is a lovely thing. And it's very rare to have a whole industry care so deeply about, you know, their patients on it on a very human level. So I just hope that we continue that, and that we don't let any political landscapes or law changes kind of derail us from from really providing the best that we can.
Griffin Jones 50:34
And then we'll have a few more million Elizabeth cars. Oh, God. I'll be guests on the show. Maybe not me. But we'll, we'll do like every every million dollars or maybe 100,000. That can can be a guest.
Elizabeth Carr 50:50
That's that's the running joke of why my parents never had another they were like we were good with you. We decided to stop after you,
Griffin Jones 50:58
Elizabeth. Karen, thank you very much for coming on inside reproductive health.
Elizabeth Carr 51:02
Thanks so much for having me.
51:03
You've been listening to the inside reproductive health podcast with Griffin Jones. If you're ready to take action to make sure that your practice thrives beyond the revolutionary changes that are happening in our field and in society. Visit fertility bridge.com To begin the first piece of the fertility marketing system, the goal and competitive diagnostic. Thank you for listening to inside reproductive health