DISCLAIMER: Today’s episode is paid content from our feature sponsor, who helps Inside Reproductive Health to deliver information for free, to you! Here, the Advertiser has editorial control. Feature sponsorship is not an endorsement, and does not necessarily reflect the views of Inside Reproductive Health.
🔹 Learn from Cheryl and Karol about the significance of vertical integration in the fertility field and explore how this strategic approach is changing the landscape of fertility treatment.
🔹 Gain insights into how BUNDL's program alleviates this burden and contributes to a positive patient experience, reputation, and online ratings for clinics.
🔹 Explore how BUNDL's transparent pricing model gives patients peace of mind upfront, allowing them to focus on their treatment journey without financial worries
🔹 Delve into how BUNDL collaborates with lenders to assist patients in affording comprehensive fertility treatment, enhancing trust and communication.
Karol Bonilla, Inception Fertility LLC:
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Cheryl Campbell, BUNDL
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Transcript
Cheryl Campbell 00:00
This is what we do at BUNDL we give the information so that everyone can make their most informed decision and put their fertility dollars where they know they need to go.
Sponsor 00:09
This episode was brought to you by BUNDL. To learn more about the BUNDL with Medications℠ program, and how they can optimize treatments for your practice and patients. Please visit www.bundlfertility.com/medications-cost That's bundlfertility.com/medications-cost. Today's episode is paid content from our feature sponsor who helps Inside Reproductive Health to deliver information for free to you. Here the advertiser has editorial control. Feature sponsorship is not an endorsement and does not necessarily reflect the views of Inside Reproductive Health.
Griffin Jones 00:58
Assurance and certainty for stressed and anxious fertility patients relief for burnt out IVF center staff achieved by means of finally accounting for medication costs with IVF treatment costs a pain point that I've heard about for a long time. So far I haven't really seen a solution for perhaps until now because this is the topic of today's featured sponsor episode Cheryl Campbell from BUNDL is back you remember her, she's the director of operations at BUNDL. BUNDL is the financial program that packages multiple treatment cycles together at a reduced upfront cost. And you may have heard her because she's been on the show before this time show brings out her colleague Karol Bonilla. Karol is the strategic account manager of Inspire RX inspire RX is the pharmacy services program that utilizes preferred network pharmacies to give patients discounts on fertility meds to speed up delivery and to personalize their Med Service. Wait. So is this a BUNDL show? Or is this an Inspire RX show? It's a BUNDL show and one of the key topics that we talk about that you're very interested in is a fertility executive as a practice owner is vertical integration, we talk about the importance of vertical integration, and we give examples of how it's changing our field. Right now we talk about the stress that patients face when they're not able to account for medication costs, what that does to them mentally and emotionally but also what that does to the practice how it's harmful to the practices reputation and online rating, how it's harmful to practices scheduling when someone has to cancel an IVF cycle start and that negatively snowballs to impacting other patients. We talked about the medications that BUNDL with Medications℠ covers it's all but two, one that's off label and one for which there's another brand. Cheryl and Karol say that once a patient pays for medications upfront with their BUNDL program ask, well what happens when the patient needs more, as often happens, and they tell me the patient gets those meds at no additional cost. Take a listen because I try to dig out if there's any catch. The whole point of BUNDL is to give patients peace of mind up front we talk about taking something off of the plate of your staff so they're not getting phone calls without medication orders. Finally, we talk about a problem that both patients face and that you clinics faces when patients can't afford treatment and how BUNDL works with lenders to help them afford treatment but also to help them hone in on that one number that all in number. I know none of you fertility clinics want to treat your patients like you're a damn car dealership. You know how car dealerships are? Oh, this is the vehicle price. But then there's this fee and that fee and the other? No, you just want the out the door price. And your patients want to know what that one all in number is too. Outside of a company standpoint, it's also fun for me to hear the passion in Karol and Cheryl's voice and I give them a compliment at the end that cost me nothing to say enjoy this feature sponsored episode about BUNDL with Medications℠ with Cheryl Campbell and Karol Bonilla. Ms. Bonilla, Karol. Welcome to Inside Reproductive Health. Ms. Campbell. Cheryl, Welcome back to Inside Reproductive Health.
Karol Bonilla 03:56
Thank you.
Cheryl Campbell 03:57
Thank you.
Griffin Jones 03:59
One of the reasons for interested this topic for me was when I first started working in the fertility field or with the fertility field, that was when I was coming in as a generalist marketer didn't know anything about the fertility field. One of the things that I did was I emailed every peer support group leader in America off of resolves list. That's how I got to know resolved because they emailed me and they're like, who are you? And I, every peer support group leader and I said, Hey, I'm some guy with no medical or scientific background that doesn't know anything about your problem. That's thinking about starting a business here. I just want to know what you are finding to be the biggest pain points as you're starting your journey. Would you be willing to talk to me? And I was amazed by how many of them said yeah, we'll talk to you and we'll just share what's going on. And there were three resounding patterns of confusion as people were starting their journey one was about success rates. The second was about out communication getting communication back that people were really frustrated with. And the third one had to do with cost and specifically about costs, they weren't just complaining about high costs or not being able to afford it, they were really talking about cost confusion, having no idea how much their treatment was going to cost. And a big part of it was that medications aren't included with a quoted cycle price, there could be this huge range and variability. And that was in 2014 2015. And the status quo, it pretty much remained in place for a long time. Now something different is happening. And I want to talk about what that is. But first, I want to talk about, can you talk about why this is such a pain in the neck for patients, when they don't, when they're not able to account for medication costs are no even what they'll be.
Cheryl Campbell 05:58
I can take a little bit of that I think what we hear from patients is that it is, you know, once they wrap their head around what their IVF treatment will be and what that journey might look like and have a basic idea of, you know, the services that they will have to go through and their likelihood of success. That's one massive knock itself. And then all of a sudden, you've got this meds piece, which again, as you alluded to, can vary so greatly across the range. And no meds means no start, right. So if you can even reach the mountaintop on the meds part, you're you're delaying this, this dream of even starting this journey, which again, is daunting, but but you're not going to be able to start your your, you know, there's a breakdown as such at your at your practice, you know, your schedules are off, the practice schedules are off, the doctor can't start you when he's looking at your clinical and saying, you know, you really need to start you're in that bucket of we've got to get you moving into this journey. But you're just stuck on this diet of not being able to get the meds. And I think that's the most heartbreaking part of not having made enough strides on this med piece is really that patients are stalled and can't get moving.
Griffin Jones 07:10
And so you're ready to go for treatment, you've accepted it you are you talk with your partner about it. And then I can only imagine what that's like to then not be able to start a cycle. How common is this? Are you hearing this from a lot of people?
Cheryl Campbell 07:28
We hear it from a lot of people, yeah. I think you know, when we talk about even just going through the pieces and parts of our multi cycle program, you know, the next question always, most, I think 90% of the time is, what can you do to help me with meds? I've heard that this is this mess piece is what's going to, you know, really have me down a rabbit hole? And what kind of help can you give me? What kind of of tips what kind of due diligence? Do I need to do? You look, the majority of the time clinics are very helpful practices want to work with patients, but you know, they're, they really get stuck on that. And so we we offer a lot of counsel as much as we're able to sort of help guide them in that direction, but we hear it a lot.
Griffin Jones 08:10
You talked a little bit about the impact that that has on practices, because they've got schedules in place, they might have a certain number of people that they can cycle, and then it messing up the clinic schedule is messing up the lab schedule, and that impacts the clinic and impacts other patients because maybe somebody else could have had that spot and it's a last minute cancellation or can you talk a little bit more about that?
Cheryl Campbell 08:39
Yeah, I mean, look, you know, starts are important practices batch starts, they want patients to be in a certain flow, you know what doctor, like I said, I'm I'm not a physician, but I'm imagining they're looking at the sort of scope of a patient and what's going on with them and what their clinical diagnosis is, are and, you know, maybe their ovarian reserve is already low. And now you're going to miss six months, maybe nine months, because the patient is basically trying to make that you know, payment and get to that point with that meds piece. So it I think it just throws off the whole rhythm of how an REI wants to help treat that patient. And I think yes, is even as a part of the larger scale of the practice, you know, cancellations and setting people back and like you say, maybe somebody else could have started and it's throwing that rhythm off. So I think it can I'm not saying it's going to drive a massive rift, but I think that it can throw off that relationship as such. There's nothing worse you want to hear then. Okay, well, let's see how we do next month. We can't start you this month. But you know, we'll try to get you on the schedule for next month. I think that just as a whole breakdown in the relationship when that has to happen.
Karol Bonilla 09:45
I would actually like to add to that. As far as like, you know, the emotional heartbreak for that patient is that you know, just to echo back what Cheryl was saying, maybe you don't have extra two months. You can't so then you know have that dream of having your family it's not going to happen, not at least in this route, because the the one thing that for a patient is can I do treatment? That's the first milestone. Now can I afford treatment because of insurance, that's the second milestone. And then is is my insurance going to cover these medications? That is the final one, because and if they don't, it will be a matter of a few thousand dollars. And even though it doesn't sound significant, it's very impactful, and you know, they can start. So it's heartbreaking.
Griffin Jones 10:32
I also want to say that it really can impact the relationship, because very often, when we do reputation management for fertility clinics, one of the things that we're seeing has to do with rescheduling or not being able to schedule or something gets thrown off and was looking at our fertility clinics, reputation yesterday that we're starting to advise on. And the most of their reviews were overwhelmingly positive. And a couple were things like, you know, this had to be rescheduled. And so they hadn't even either been in some cases. In other cases, they were talking about it, that wasn't new patient consults that they were talking about later on in treatment, who knows that might have been associated with something like medications, but it does impact the patient relationship, it impacts that patient's relationship with the clinic, but then it also impacts everyone else's, because that patient is going on online and talking about having a negative experience. And it's something that it has been out of the practices controller, at least up until recently. So now, there's this medication piece that that BUNDL is offering BUNDL with Medications℠. We talked about the reasons that there's a need for it with patients and practices. But tell me more about what motivated you all to know that this is something that we can solve?
Cheryl Campbell 12:03
Well, I think from a you know, having started BUNDL knowing that the goal of that was to help alleviate that financial tension that financial stressor right by by meeting patients more and more where they are in their journey and being able to take all those little pieces and parts and put them into one place for a patient and help them kind of get their start going. And and not worry about the financial aspects of it and focus on the treatment. So the meds piece seemed like the next logical avenue on that front. And because BUNDL and Inspire RX are a part of the same team, that the relationship just seemed like it was a no brainer, right? This is this would be a simple way for us to combine our forces, and take our multi cycle and layer in the meds and do it at a price point that will be very desirable for patients. And the price is really important. I think we're doing that well. But I really think that it's we never I always say this to my team. Never underestimate just when you're able to put one more thing in our bucket to help the patient and take it out of the strain of the patient. That's such a win for them. So I think it's just another way of saying we'll handle it, our teams are going to take care of it, you don't need to worry about it. And you know, that's really the genesis of it. And we find that, you know, it's it's landing really well with our patients.
Griffin Jones 13:29
Karol, tell me more about how BUNDL partners with Inspire RX?
Karol Bonilla 13:35
Well, we are under the same umbrella through inception. So we're pretty much family. So Inspire RX pretty much is our pharmacy benefits platform, we have a group of filling pharmacies, we're there to provide those patients with discounts through reputable filling pharmacies. So right now, our connection between BUNDL and Inspire RX is to fill that gap, you know, you got the treatment that you're going to have on medications. Now those patients thankfully don't have to, and I hate to use his word shop for medication pricing that's done. It's done through this partnership. So that, you know, voyage of going into that that could be kind of dark, because patients could get so many, a lot of misinformation or even you know, going to these message boards and saying, You know what, maybe I could get medications abroad. That's not safe. So all that those unknowns are out of the way thanks to this partnership.
Griffin Jones 14:35
You mentioned a partnership with a multitude of pharmacies and some pharmacies serve some states and but not others with you've got multiple pharmacies. Are there any states that you're that you're not able to cover with this partnership covered?
Karol Bonilla 14:51
We're covered nationwide.
Griffin Jones 14:53
So then it's so it starts to come together because you've you've got the finance same piece with BUNDL. It's the logical next step, you also have a sister company and inspire our acts as all these pharmacy partnerships. And then tell me how does it actually start to get built?
Cheryl Campbell 15:13
As far as the process how the process goes?
Griffin Jones 15:15
Yeah, of making it would be even before we get into the process for patients, but just like, like, how did how did agenda bring this to market? Okay, we've got the need, we've got the finance piece, we've got the pharma piece, tell me about how you brought them all together?
Cheryl Campbell 15:30
I think it was, I don't even think it was too much to bring them together. To be honest, I think because Inspire RX was such a strong line of business as well as BUNDL, I think it was just a question of, how do we find between the teams with the best working situation was we marketed it during National Infertility Awareness Week, which was fantastic, big launch then. And I think it just, you know, we just kind of put the word out. And, and, and said, hey, you know, this is just another addition, this is an add on to your existing BUNDL conversation, you don't have to partake in it, but we really, you know, want the community to know that we're, we're listening, we're hearing, we want to meet them where they are. So we have this additional add on. And, you know, we did a lot of push out into our practices, making sure doctors don't know that they're able to talk about it. And that now is a part of, you know, our offerings. So I think because our two lines of business are so strong, and in what we do the crossover of, hey, you do this, I do this, we come together. Yeah, it's really been very, very simple. And I think it's the strength of our relationships to care, like Karol said, very strong relationships with the pharmacies, very good up and running relationships with our practices. And I think it made it a simple transition.
Karol Bonilla 16:46
It just makes sense. You know, if there's that need, we can fill that gap. So
Griffin Jones 16:52
An overnight success, X years, and overnight success several years in the making. So I'm asking you to speculate a little bit. And it's related in what you talked about, the reason why I was able to move so quickly with with BUNDL with Medications℠ is because I spent so long building and making BUNDL successful as a financial platform I spent so long working on Inspire RX, to make them successful as a pharmacy pharmaceutical partnership platform. And so that made the BUNDL with Medications℠ seem like an overnight success. But I still feel like why didn't nobody do this sooner? I know, I'm asking you to speculate. Why do you think nobody's been able to pull this off yet?
Cheryl Campbell 17:40
You know, that's, I guess, you know, not wanting to put the work in not having the dynamic in the relationships we have not wanting to take on risk? I'm not sure. I mean, it is a good question. I think it's the same way that people say, Oh, we have a multi cycle at our practice, or, Oh, we do something like that. And it's not the same, it really takes and requires, first of all, buy in from our larger parent company of inception, who's made such a solid and amazing investment in our lines of business and the resources that we are able to have, through, you know, our talent, and our marketing departments are, you know, just just everybody's buy in knowing that this is such an important thing for our patients. I just think it's, you know, investing that and taking the time to build on it and, and taking the leaps and, you know, kind of going after it. I think people dabble in what we're sort of saying we're doing, you know, and they're they want it on offer, because of course, every practice wants to have as much on offer as they can. But it really does take a a sort of solid foundation of people that kind of understand these businesses, these streams of business to do this work. And I think that that's the leap that we're taking as
Karol Bonilla 18:54
Yeah, and I actually want to Yeah, I want to add to that, because I why no one has done it before is because it's not an easy task. It's not an easy task to have, you know, it's sometimes maybe there could be a set of treatments, but this is patient focus. What is the patient needing as far as treatment, what is the patient needing as far as medications, because if you want to do something like this are so many different variables to get it all together to gel for the benefit of the patient in the clinic is not easy, but fortunately enough, we're under the same umbrella where we can do this for the patient. That is not an easy task.
Griffin Jones 19:32
The vertical integration piece is really something that you're starting to see different companies trying to get ahead of and yours is one of the earlier ones and these are the reasons why is because there's so many points on the patient journey and then if you want to positively impact them, you're gonna have to pull from different areas. So now let's start from the patient journey. I'm The patient, I've done my initial consultation, maybe have even done some of my testing and the physician is recommended an IVF cycle to me and now I am walking down the hall to the financial counselor, doc tells us, here's the treatment plan that you need and you're going to talk with Rick and Sally, our financial counselors, and they're going to tell you, give you some options of how you're going to pay for this. How do I, now where do I go from here?
Cheryl Campbell 20:34
Right. So the way that we have the process setup at our practices, it's at that FC consult, that they would be talking about BUNDL as an option in your journey. So whether the doctors test out that this is a good multi cycle patient or, or even if it's a cash pay patient, they get the entire suite of options for them and bundle would be included. So the lead generation of the referral will come over the same way from a clinic or again, people might see us on our webpage, people might call in because they heard about us from a fertility Facebook group. Either way, they're going to learn about BUNDL. And in that time, they're also going to learn that they've got this additional add on layer of the medication. So it's really at that the top of that conversation that we have all day long with patients however they move into BUNDL that we're going to talk to him about the medication option and it and the very simple straightforward way that if they for X amount of dollars, they can layer in their meds we will take care of the flow we will organize with the pharmacy. And then we aren't my team just coordinates with with inspired us to say, hey, you know this is going to be a meds patient. And it just kind of falls under the med, BUNDL Meds title, and we're kind of off and we will literally do the heavy lifting to make sure those meds are in the patient's hands when they need to be. And the other really beautiful thing, and this might speak to why people maybe don't do this, we're going to move with whatever we know this journey isn't linear all the time, right? There's twists, there's turns, especially with meds, you need more you need less you're not stemming, well, you need a different med, we're trying to go off of a very basic standard med protocol, which is pretty, pretty robust, I would say there's very few exceptions to what we're going to put under our meds program. And we're going to get you what you need when you need it. So in the 11th hour, if you need more follow stem, we're going to have it for you no questions asked, and I don't think many, I'm not sure many people trying to do something similar to this would be in that same, you know, we'd be thinking operationally like that. So I think we don't want to tie in REIs hands and we don't want to hold back on any treatment with a patient. So we'll, you know, it's we're still in our infancy with the program, but right now we believe in we're going to get the patients what they want, when they need it. And you know, that's that's a win back to the patient and to the into the respect and, and reputation of the program.
Griffin Jones 22:57
And so when the patient is having their prescription refilled, are they going through the BUNDL platform through the partner pharmacies? Are they ordering to the partner, pharmacies and partner pharmacies are sending the invoice to BUNDL? How does that work?
Cheryl Campbell 23:12
No, really, the flow on a regular BUNDL program is that my team will handle it once the patient is enrolled. And that could be either with or without meds. But once that happens, the the work then come becomes between my team and the clinical team. So we go back and forth authorizing cycles. And when cycles are authorized, we will authorize with the clinical teams to say put the meds, you know, this patient's pharmacy med piece, put that through bundle, they will do that work. So really, essentially, the patient's out of it at that point, they'll just see the med show up on their door. If the doctor then says listen, you need more follistim, the clinical team will say okay, this is a meds patient for BUNDL. So we're going to put that in under the BUNDL, and that flow, really for the most part. Now we know patients get nervous, and they oftentimes will stay involved and say My doctor said I needed more. And we'll say we know we saw that. Don't worry, it's it's fine. They can still have that communication with us. And we will assure them that we've got it, we see it, we're taking care of it. And it really just goes back and forth like that until the patient either finds success or moves through the rest of their benefits.
Griffin Jones 24:19
So even though I've had a couple of conversations with you all prior to this about how this works, it might be even easier than I thought it was so so it sounds like so in the clinical team is ordering the meds from the pharm, from the partner pharmacy, and there's billing it through BUNDL because that's already associated with it and then, so the patient doesn't have to call the pharmacy, get prescription filled, prescription filled, excuse me, okay, it's even it's even easier. Even though you've explained it to me, it's easy, it's even easier through the pay of it. Gotcha. That's it. That seems like almost as much of a benefit as the as the financial piece. Right?
Cheryl Campbell 25:06
Right, exactly
Karol Bonilla 25:07
Right. Because it actually just to add to that, usually, when it goes to the pharmacy, then maybe the pharmacy doesn't contact within 48 or 72 hours, that could bring more anxiety to the patient. So because we have all the missing, we have all those pieces together, we have relationships, that patient gets contacted within 24 hours, for sure. And the patient doesn't have to worry anymore. So it is very easy for the patient and for clinicians as as well
Griffin Jones 25:36
And so what you're talking about Cheryl, with if they need more follistim, if they need more of something we're going to we're going to take care of it, that's preventing any latent hidden bills, right? Because that's already included with or with their BUNDL packet. So again, I'm coming at this from a reputation management standpoint, one of the biggest red areas in online reviews, is just a late bill, it doesn't matter if it's, you know, if it's a $275 ultrasound bill, or if it's a medication bill, when it comes just a little bit later. And maybe this is something okay, we've planned for this, I kind of had an idea with these medication costs where I didn't realize that the doctor had ordered when when he ordered the extra follistim, that that was going to end up on my bill later and it's a few hundred dollars more, sometimes thousands of dollars more, right? That drives people crazy, especially if they're still in the journey. And especially, even worse, though, if if they do have a failed cycle, and then that bill trickles in, it's like a dagger to the side.
Cheryl Campbell 26:51
Exactly. Exactly. The psychology that is so, so difficult. And so that's what we're avoiding. And this is what we do, even on the BUNDL piece, too. Right? We're it's so upfront you so know what you're getting from the minute that it happens, that there isn't going to be that shocker of you know, the late bill. And I think that I think that's, you know, that's absolutely what we're trying to avoid here. And I think that, you know, patients will will realize that and patients will understand that there isn't going to be Yeah, and people say this all the time. You know, when we talk about BUNDL we say we cover unlimited meds, people like Okay, so you do two, we're like, no, if you get four, you get four, if you get 10, you get 10, I think there was always so you say I can have whatever meds I want. So but there, you're gonna cap me at a certain amount, and we really, again, our rep, we want the product, we want people to understand that we we say what we mean, and we mean what we say and that is that this is going to we never want you to stop or halt or feel in any way that you're being nickeled and dimed. Or that there's anything that's going to stop the process. So we really, we really stand behind that. And these late, you know, there will be no late bill, there will be nothing that will come through that will, you know blindside any patients.
Griffin Jones 28:12
You said that there are very notable or there's very, very limited exception. Are there any? What medications specifically are included? And and what aren't things any worth? Worth noting that the what's included list as long as a lot longer. But are there any things worth noting on either side?
Karol Bonilla 28:37
Sure, I can mention mentioned there's only two exceptions. There's a medication called omnitrope that can be prescribed. It's the off label medication. So that's not included in the BUNDL with Medications℠, and then there's a medication called Gonal-F. But we have a comparable brand to that that's also a reputable called follistim. So in essence is just one one item and then whatever the doctor deems necessary to prescribe for your treatment that's covered and store the refills as well. As Cheryl mentioned.
Griffin Jones 29:14
everything other than those two.
Karol Bonilla 29:15
Yes, sir. We want to make it easy.
Griffin Jones 29:19
So tell me about what clinics, which clinics are eligible for BUNDL with Medications℠?
Cheryl Campbell 29:27
So any clinics that partner with BUNDL will get the option to work with our meds piece of it. So you know we are within the inception clinics, we've got that all you know pretty much going but but BUNDL this year is in a major national march to sort of product try to partner with as many clinics as we can and that is in any pocket of the country and all in all over the geography and we want to try to be wherever we hear patients need us and so the minute that a clinic talks to bundle and wants to partner we absolutely may Get a point of talking about the fact that we've got this meds piece and for some new business currently, as we're talking to people, that's what's that's the kicker, that's what's thrilling limited at this point is that they're going to be able to have this medication offering. And thanks to Karol and her rockstar relationship with the pharmacy, she's able to identify, okay, within that market, let's sort out all the pharmacy piece for this practice. So if it's an Iowa and she can say, okay, well, in Iowa we've got, and Karol, you can speak more to this, but it's really nothing to operationalize and get that practice on the meds side of it, right. So it's just a matter of, you know, talking to their team. It's just, you know, one other layer on the onboarding side of things with practices, but everybody will have the option right when they partner
Karol Bonilla 30:45
Because as I mentioned, we have coverage nationwide, we have nice group of filling pharmacies. So wherever that clinic is located outside of, you know, of our network, we could provide services for as far as getting that patient that medication, it could either be picked up locally or shipped overnight. So we have coverage for any clinic anywhere in the US.
Griffin Jones 31:10
So if I'm in a market where BUNDL isn't yet so maybe BUNDL doesn't have clinic partner in Smithtown, USA, can I become a BUNDL partner? Do I have to be an inception family clinic, like a prelude clinic in order to be partner with BUNDL?
Cheryl Campbell 31:34
No, you can just reach out to BUNDL and we will talk to you about joining our family. And it's very simple, you know, we'll talk about the the program itself and how it will fit your practice. And you know, we have a couple financial discussions and we can get you up and running and have an agreement over to you and start you tomorrow. And if and if that's largely driven off the fact that you want to offer this meds piece to patients, that's great. But again, you can offer the entire bundle part of it you can offer, you know, we've again, we've got our refund back program, we've got, you know, we've got the entire suite of offerings, and any practice can be a part of the BUNDL network. And we would love it, because we're looking to really expand because we talk to patients all the time in areas that unfortunately, we don't have a presence yet, or maybe a patient just really isn't willing to travel to. So we've really, really are hoping that something like the mid 30s, to will entice practices to to bring a multi cycle into their world, which is really what we want to be just that multi cycle option. It has many clinics as we can be in
Griffin Jones 32:40
Does that also include academic REI centers, or health systems that come in? There's large parts of the country where there isn't even like a private clinic? It might there might be one area that works in a division of a larger health system, for some states, especially like in the interior west and stuff. But even that, I mean, there might also be other markets where the biggest clinic or sometimes the only clinic group in town is in the university system. Can they still partner with bundle?
Cheryl Campbell 33:09
They can. And it's interesting to say that we we we have approached some university systems most of the time, I think it's on their end, how they want to do it just there's nothing on the BUNDL side that we won't partner with you. But I think it's really more the guidelines of what the university system may dictate as far as bringing the multi cycle in. But we have no restriction on that. And we would love that because I know in some areas, that's kind of who you've got, right? I mean, and we would love to be able to serve an area, even if it's within the university system, but I think it's really more on what their guidelines are to that. But we'd love to still talk about it.
Griffin Jones 33:43
So there's the there's the the bundling of the medication costs, and you're having the ability to save patients money, it sounds like so there's the convenience piece. There's the predictability piece, but it sounds like you might even be saving patients money with the discounts can can you tell me about how that works, Karol?
Karol Bonilla 34:10
What due to our relationships with our partners and our pharmacy partners, that there is already a discount price set for all the medications. So the patient doesn't have to worry about, you know, how much is this? How much is that? All that is already taken care of? If that answers your question.
Griffin Jones 34:31
So then are there any additional benefits or incentives provided like like the personalized support, you talked about Karol, that sometimes people will call you and they'll ask for? They'll still want to know what what's going on with their medication, even though it's come through the clinical team? Is there any kind of personalized support that people that patients can get when they're working with BUNDL?
Karol Bonilla 34:58
Well, I think that Uh, with BUNDL, Cheryl can answer to that, but as far as the support that the patients will get when they get the BUNDL with Medications℠, because BUNDL could be just treatment or bundled with meds right. So if you're utilizing BUNDL with meds, you also get the added support from the filling pharmacy, they have also nurses, so they could do also medication teaching. So it's an added support to the clinician. And as we mentioned in and out of network, so any clinic, but actually once utilize BUNDL, and you know, and they have that partnership with BUNDL could take advantage of that, or filling pharmacy support, which I think is very helpful. Because in right now, in our day to day, we have so much going on, you know, with Mother Nature, a lot of clinicians don't have enough staff. So the added support is so beneficial for both the patient and the clinic.
Cheryl Campbell 35:55
Yeah, I mean, we've always said that with BUNDL, one of the things that we pride ourselves on and feel very good about is that we know these clinics are busy. BUNDL is is a small part of their day. But it's huge for our patients that they're getting these dedicated a dedicated team to really to really help them with their questions to get into so you know, clinics are busy. So maybe getting to the front desk getting that quote, that question answered isn't easy when they've got the BUNDL team as a part of their enrollment, and now they've got the meds team really, because even if there is an issue or a question, my team will work directly with Karol and Inspire RX and even has a line into the, you know, to the pharmacies, just to say so and so is a question, they're not really sure how to elevate it. Like, it's just, it's just that getting people where they need to be and we know and as an ex patient myself, you just it's that frustration where you feel where do I turn, but when you so the more again, it comes back to what I said at the top, the more you're able to pull all these pieces and parts in where a patient can now say, Oh, I've got BUNDL, and I've got meds, oh I can talk to BUNDL. I'm gonna talk to BUNDL about what I have a million questions, but I can now talk to BUNDL and I've talked to my pharmacy, talk to my doctor, you know, and then they can just focus on really the clinical piece of it. But I think that it's it's trying to, we talked to so many patients that really are sort of most of the time in their journey, just saying, who do I talk to about all this stuff. And I think having this these dedicated teams, and another reason why we're doing this, we're doing it well, because we know whether we're teams dedicated to getting this this done for patients,
Griffin Jones 37:35
That talks about the reputation management side where it's the client, it was it's where it's the patient, voicing their frustration, if in when they don't get that communication, and that happens all the time. But then we're also on the other side, where we listen to fertility clinics, phone calls, and we check your call volume, we look at what the wait time is we look at how many calls go to voicemail how many calls hang up before that their answer because they're on the phone tree. And it's always a problem. And very often it's a problem because there's a limited staff on the the call center team or many fertility centers don't even have a call center, they have the front desk for a number of different things, and they can't get to enough new patients or they can't get to existing because people are calling back for for things. And this is one of the areas that people are calling for information for and if they can call you instead of the clinic. That's one less thing that the clinic has to have tying up their, their whole phone tree and their whole their whole process, which drives that patient crazy. But it also it's also really hard for the front desk team that the clinical team. Cheryl, I'm just curious because you were a patient and you've spent so many, so much time working with patients on a customer service side. Nowadays how much of your time are you interacting with your quote unquote customers but the but patients versus how much time are you managing and the other folks that do that? How often are you working with patients nowadays?
Cheryl Campbell 39:22
Yeah, not as much I wish more I'll be honest, you know, since I transitioned from sort of having helped stand up BUNDL from the operational side and now moving into the director side, I don't get to talk to patients but every now and then because our programs are three years long and we started in 2020, most of our patients that I started out with earlier kind of still cycling in one way or another many of them so I love when they come back and many do just to sort of say I have a question and I remember I talked to Cheryl a year ago and I'd love to talk to her so I love that and then now and if I can just make say this a lot of patients are finding success and so we hear about pregnancies and we hear about you know, the babies that are, that are BUNDL babies that are being delivered. And that is super exciting. So I love to hear that, because that's a real full circle moment for me having been part of the very beginning of the program, but I think I'm spending the larger majority of my time managing and kind of getting everybody down the lanes that they need, and making sure that my team is feeling well resourced, and and you know, informed because they, they have a lot throwing at them every now and then like, we do little changes to BUNDL, and then we bring the meds piece in, and then you know, so that's been a lot, it's been a lot of changes, but you know, and then we've got a whole network, and we never, we always say we never are done. So even when you partner with us, and even a very, like our own family clinics, inception clinics, right, of which there are many, and we've had very long standing relationships, there's always a tweak, there's always a process. Look, there's always something that might break down or a patient or will, you know, maybe a doctor isn't feeling as good about it at one point or another, or they're hearing something from a patient. So we're always in process improvement, and what can we do most so it's never sort of, oh you're in BUNDL and now you know, good, you're done, you're on boarded. That's it. So there's a lot of the piece of keeping, you know, all of this moving. And this is what we're going to find in this program as well. Right? We're sort of early, thoroughly early days. But but like we do with all of it, and I'm sure Karol does it on her piece as well. You're just always looking for how can we do better? How can we improve, maybe we get rid of something that just isn't working and people don't feel good about. And that's coming from clinicians. It's coming from doctors, it's coming from our patients, it's coming from our our executive team and our marketing, and it's all a buy in. So there's always a lot to do because we're sort of still a little startup, we're sort of still the baby of the family and the inception world BUNDL. But yeah, we're we're making major strides, though. And this is just another way of doing it.
Griffin Jones 41:54
Do you feel like were you on the, when you started to launch BUNDL with Medications℠, did you get to be on any of those calls with with patients or when you when you started to be to tell patients? This is something we can offer you now, tell me about that? What like I'm interested in their reaction when it went for it. Because you started, you started that splash at National Infertility Awareness Week, and then, you know, so this is something that they haven't ever been able to get before. You're now managing the people that are helping them in many cases. But did you get to be privy to any of those reactions?
Cheryl Campbell 42:35
I got a few of them. But most of it is feedback from my advocates that are talking with patients. And I think the firt the overriding comment kind of was like, Oh, finally, that's great, thank goodness, or, oh, gosh, I'm scrambling to start, can I still get into the med side of it. But you know, like, there, people are sort of like, wait a minute, this has changed my whole mindset way I want to do meds with you. So we we sort of have, that's another thing we've done things we move very quickly. And thanks to Karol's team as well, we can move a patient very fast, even if they've only just found out about meds, and they're just ready to start, we can get it done quickly. Because we know meds need to get ordered and get to a patient but we can move fast. So I think there was a general sense of oh, this is great. Now, there's always always the patients that want to take a beat and say, okay, I understand what you're saying, I want to layer this in. But I might need a little bit more time because now this is an extra bit of money on top. And okay, let me so it's it's paused some people to kind of really consider it. One thing that it's really benefited from which we've heard from patients, especially when patients need loans, and we work with the top fertility lenders, right, some of the pain point for a patient is what we alluded to before that unknown Oh my gonna get slammed with this cost. And that costs when you have one bite at the apple to get your loan, and especially if patients maybe have never had an experience of having to take out a loan, or certainly something that's large, you want to be all in on what that number is, right? Because if you're going to have one shot to go through all the due diligence of getting a loan, you want to know what it is. And so when you're blindsided by that extra five, that extra 10, when you know upfront, here's my program fee, here's what I'm going to owe on my meds. Here's maybe the little bit that I might owe to my clinic. I'm all in I'm going to go for that number. And I'm going to see what I can get that is helping with the lending conversation. And I think that now also, even though our lenders multi disperse really helpful that they can now bring the whole piece over to bundle and just say write all in on the program and the medication. Here's your patient's financial piece of it, and it's done. And a patient usually is it's another layer. Yeah, it's another layer of chasing up the loan and where does this piece go and where did that this is now another way that we've consolidated and helped not only the patient, but you know, even with our relationships with our lenders, it's increased that that's level a little bit better as well.
Griffin Jones 45:02
It sucks that patients have to take out a loan like this. Like, it's almost like another little mortgage on it. Yeah, it can be a big be a big car loan, it sucks, that has to happen. But it forces me to, in some cases, in some sense, compare it to a mortgage. And if you, when you get a mortgage, you're also factoring in the closing costs. Again, not it's not just what this what this person has listed the house for. It's also all of the other closing costs that go into purchasing the house. And it's like, you get a home inspection. So you want to know if there's something that is going to be immediate, like if it's, if I'm buying a $400,000 house, and I know that there's going to that there's repairs to the furnace that are necessary. So that's your like, that's your medications, like, okay, I know that the house isn't just $400,000. And that because I know that I'm buying it, where it's going to require these repairs to the furnace, or the plumbing or the electric. And that's what I have to plan for in the total. So I've always thought when I think of BUNDL is like, okay, it's planning for that. But that impacts the the loan to what, what you're, what you're taking out for, for the loan. So do people are people in, and, we touched on this a bit when we when you were on before, Cheryl we were talking about the BUNDL, but do patients interface with the loan companies on on their own, and then get support through BUNDL, or it's all through BUNDL, and BUNDL is dealing with the loan companies.
Cheryl Campbell 46:49
I think what we have managed to do is bring patients right up to that juncture where they're ready to talk to that loan representative. Because at that point, you know, they have to provide the personal information, and they have to kind of do that piece of it, but we are with them right up. And again, like I said, we have a lot of patients have never, they've never gone through a loan process before, you know, getting bank statements, and you know, so we lead the right up to that point. And, and our lenders are so good. And gosh, lending. I mean, I think that, like I said, even on my own journey, like I don't even know if anybody knew what a fertility lending piece looked like. But it's so wonderful the way that lenders are aware of, this isn't, you're not taking out money for a, you know, a car or a condo, right, this is a they know how stressed and difficult this is at the point at which they're talking to these patients. So our lenders are so wonderful with the way and the offerings that they have a lot of lenders even offer, you know, special little help for patients like if they need to know how how to do a trigger shot, or how to, you know, that's just a plug for our lenders, because they're just they're listening to right and they're trying to meet patients where they are because it's a kind of daunting process BUNDL will help you get right up to the point where you're talking to that lender, and then they do their due diligence with the lender, get the okay for the loan, and then we pick up from there, we get the funding in, we work all that out all the payment. And then of course, and I want to make sure that this is understood, we have a refund back program, right. So with BUNDL, if you qualify, just like under our regular BUNDL program, and you go through all the program and you don't take a baby home, you get 100% of your money back, that's our BUNDL guard 100% money back. Now with meds, if you buy meds on top of that program, and you do not again, you're not seeing success in that program, after all your services, you're going to get 100% of your meds money back as well. So our guarantee that we have built with this program is going to extend into the meds piece. So that is really huge for patients. And I think that they've got even more peace of mind, even with the meds in there. We're going to give 100% of that back. So that's, I want to make sure that I understand that so those that qualify for you get 100% back and if they do the meds piece, and they qualify for BUNDL guard that that's going to, they're also going to get the meds but it's not like oh, I can qualify for BUNDL guard over here. And not quite, but maybe not qualify new BUNDL meds piece. No, if you've added the meds onto your BUNDL guard and you've gone through all your services without taking the baby home, that meds piece is a part of that 100% back so it's the full amount back to you. So that is even in a bigger peace of mind for patients, I think as they enter into the BUNDL guard.
Karol Bonilla 49:38
That actually answers your previous question, Griffin. Why no one has done this. This is why no one's going to do that. No one.
Cheryl Campbell 49:46
It's the risk, right?
Karol Bonilla 49:48
Yes, that, that is unheard of. So that's why no one can do it.
Griffin Jones 49:55
Yeah, that's that's a pretty big logistical hill to climb. Karol, how do you get the, how do you, this is maybe a little bit more Inspired than BUNDL because we're talking about the meds piece, it's relevant to outcomes back to the patients in the clinics, how, how do you interface with the pharmacies in such a way where you can make sure that okay everything except for Gonal-F and Omnitrope, we were gonna get it for you. We're gonna get it for you on time. That's it's a big logistical lift, and you've got more than one partner. So that's probably what helps you is you got multiple partners. But how does that that pharmacy logistics work?
Karol Bonilla 50:39
Well, it's having conversations with each and every one about our new offering. And then being able to say, yes, we want to be part of this. They're part of our network as far, our Inspire RX network of filling pharmacies, so they know what this meets overall. So getting them on board was an easy task. But of course, it's a conversation with each one. And there was really not much questions asked is just what is necessary. You know, and, you know, we're gonna get it done, because we have that partnership. So it wasn't a difficult task and that end because of our partnerships.
Griffin Jones 51:20
How many pharmacies are partners within Inspired RX?
Karol Bonilla 51:23
Currently, we have seven filling pharmacies,
Griffin Jones 51:27
And are all seven Inspire RX partners? Part of the BUNDL with Medications℠?
Karol Bonilla 51:34
Yes, sir. All of them.
Griffin Jones 51:37
So that they, they've all come over and Cheryl, when you said that the programs last for, they're three years. So that if they add on BUNDL with Medications℠ in the beginning, that's, that's for the three year duration as well?
Cheryl Campbell 51:54
Yes. Yeah.
Griffin Jones 51:55
So there's, it's not like the meds piece lasts for a time?
Cheryl Campbell 51:59
No, it's going to be covered over the Yeah, it's going to but you know, again, time knowing that majority of patients will probably finished their programs within, you know, 10-11 months, that's really our average. But we you know, you never know life takes over maybe a patient does a cycle, and they need a break or something happens in life. Maybe there's a personal reason, a surgery, if they are putting that off, and then they're going to revisit, let's say cycle two, but they've bought meds that that those meds are going to be available when they're ready to pick up on the next time they go into service. So that's, there's no, I'm glad that you asked that question. Because I think that people may think, oh, gosh, I know the program's 36 months, but there must be a cap on meds. And we're saying no, because again, even if you take that break, and then you pick up 8, 9, 10 months later, that that meds is good, you know, the doctor will tell you what your med is going to be and we'll put it through and then that's it.
Karol Bonilla 52:54
Right, life happens. So that's part yeah.
Griffin Jones 52:58
So the whole that's the whole point of BUNDL, it seems like to me like it keeps coming I like the discounts are important and they're meaningful and I get how you're saving people money but it seems to me like just that the peace of mind maybe maybe that's just me, maybe some other people would would prioritize the discounts higher and, and the peace of mind is the benefit at whereas I just see like, it takes out so much of the worry and it's like this is what it's going to be I've got three years to do this. So that not, if life happened, when life happens at some point all of these contingencies are accounted for now I'm not asking either of you to you know to show the cards too much or but I just every time I talk to you I could see okay, something else like something else is coming from BUNDL because this is kind of the ethos of BUNDL it's it's our job is to streamline all of these financial hiccups for for patients, make it easier for them to pay for, it make it easier for them to know what to pay for. You know, when I first talked with you, I didn't even ask about medications and and and I could just see that it's not just about the services that BUNDL is providing now but it kind of being committed to this ethos of this is our this is what our vertical is it's it's reducing this variability for patients and giving them predictability. So I feel like I feel like you've got more in your roadmap, and you don't have to share any you don't have to share any secret sauce. But can you kind of just tell us what you're paying attention to in patients needs that are going to have to be solved for some day?
Cheryl Campbell 54:45
Hmm, that's a good one. I can because I think in the immediate my whole feeling is that what what what brings me down or bums me out is when I can't get to a patient that needs me in a market that I'm just not there. Right? And there, they are just so elated over the thought of BUNDL and what they need. Because look, I mean, I think, you know, the percentages still aren't getting great with one cycle success. So multi cycle, you know, and we and again, we're a cash pay program and you know, we can even do programs for minimally insured, and we are, you know, insurance is getting a little better, but it's still, you know, not 100% there. And, you know, I always say this, like, this is a juncture in the year where people have maxed out on fertility benefits, this is a time where we talk to a lot of patients, because they're they don't have any more coverage. Now they need a BUNDL, and they're not and time is ticking, right? They're still at that 36, 37, 38. Nobody wants to hear oh, you are running out of time when you're 36. But you know, that's the reality is that this journey just doesn't stop. So, you know, I just feel like, my biggest immediate focus is how can we continue to help people in places that we are not, but we are always listening to our patients and trying to hear about the what's next? And what else would you like, and I can't really say for sure what that next top thing is, but you know, we're, we're going to be there when we know it. And we're going to always keep our ear to the ground. And I think we're off to an amazing start with what we're doing with BUNDL, what were our relationships are with our partners, like I said, the resources that come out of of inception for us, there is a real focus, because we believe in what we're doing. And I think it's really helping patients at a really difficult time.
Griffin Jones 56:38
I hope that geographical expansion does come from the patients that are that are really asking for it in other areas be and it stinks that they have to but and I'm not comparing BUNDL to Uber, but I just remember how Uber started in the Bay Area. And then they went to a couple of major cities, and then they went to smaller cities. Well, for whatever reason, New York State was the last place to get Uber except they made a little deal with New York City that New York City could get it earlier. And it was really some convoluted political thing. But it ended up being coming a point where the people in the cities of upstate New York, Buffalo, Rochester were like, Why don't we have this? And why? Why is that anywhere else? I go, I can have this privilege. And yeah, and and then and then I come back and I don't get to have it. And it goes almost it goes from being, you know, a nice to have to a must have. And when you start to see everybody like why did they get it over here? And I don't say I hope that that's part of what drives the the geographical expansion. What haven't I asked you about BUNDL with Medications℠ that that I should have, or how would you like to conclude with our audience?
Karol Bonilla 57:59
I think you you ask everything because you know, I think what's important is who can we service? Who can join who could take advantage that was answered? Anyone can take advantage of this? You could get pretty much all your you answer over the right questions, I think. So,
Cheryl Campbell 58:16
Yeah. There's no qualification, per se. You know, we just want it to be there. As another option. I will say this, you know, there's nothing harder than when patients as much as being thrown at them in this right. They want to know, they want options. They want to know that you think enough about the fact that you know, they're going through something difficult that you want to say, look, here's something that might help on the multi cycle side, but the financial piece, here's a lender that we think might help you. Here's a grant program that we think this is what we do at BUNDL, we give the information so that everyone can make their most informed decision and put their fertility dollars where they know they need to go because, you know, some people have just small pot and that one shot and they want because there is nothing worse than a patient saying I never knew about you. I never knew about these options. And now I can't go back and get another loan. And I had a failed cycle. And I mean, that is the most heartbreaking part of it. We know that these are big numbers, right? We know it's expensive. We were still keeping an eye on the best that we can always do on that front. But I think that we can never assume that someone doesn't want to know, a piece of information. Oh, you know, you're probably okay with one cycle. Maybe you don't need to know about the multi cycle options. It's heartbreaking when people don't know. So I think the biggest thing is just making sure that patients are informed and have all the pieces and parts and that comes everywhere from the doctor conversation straight through the FC's than when they cut over to us. And then when they're in their mom groups, and then when you know they just we just want the word to be out there that people should have a conversation and really get all their information before they move forward. And then, you know, see, see what happens.
Karol Bonilla 1:00:08
And you know what Griffin, I think there's something that I do want to add, just based on my experience in the fertility space is that with BUNDL and BUNDL with Medications℠, we're most definitely patient focus. And you can see that through our actions with the type of offering that that we have. So we're definitely patient focused. That's what I that's what I would like to end it with.
Griffin Jones 1:00:32
I'll end it with a lot of people say that a lot of people say they're patient focused, and there's, there's varying degrees of what that that is and, and it will like when you're talking about, like, we're going to make it right for the patient, we're going to, we're going to help them if they need more meds we're gonna get for them. A lot of times people will say that, and then it's except a, b, and c. And a long disclaimer, and, and I've never been in the BUNDL office, I've never I've never, I've never shadowed you both and stood over your desk. I've never been a patient going through this and have to. So I can't speak from the total global experience of it. But I can say, from getting to know both of you from talking to your colleagues, some of whom have also been patients that when I when when I hear you say that, I really believe yes. I really believe what what your commitment is from, from your team. So good on inception, leadership for letting you all have this autonomy and build this and because, again, I might not know from all of the other things, but I'm telling, like, I smell real. I know what not real smells like. And right now I'm smelling real and I have every time that I've had you on and I've gotten a chance to talk to you. So I look forward to having you on again. And thanks for coming back to this conversation.
Karol Bonilla 1:01:58
Thank you.
Cheryl Campbell 1:01:59
Thanks, Griffin. Appreciate it.
Sponsor 1:02:02
This episode was brought to you by BUNDL. To learn more about the BUNDL with Medications℠ program, and how they can optimize treatments for your practice and patients. Please visit www.bundlfertility.com/medications-cost That's bundlfertility.com/medications-cost. Today's episode is paid content from our feature sponsor who helps Inside Reproductive Health to deliver information for free to you. Here the advertiser has editorial control. Feature sponsorship is not an endorsement and does not necessarily reflect the views of Inside Reproductive Health. You've been listening to the Inside Reproductive Health podcast with Griffin Jones. If you are ready to take action to make sure that your practice thrives beyond the revolutionary changes that are happening in our field and in society. Visit fertilitybridge.com to begin the first piece of the fertility marketing system, the goal and competitive diagnostic. Thank you for listening to Inside Reproductive Health